Excessive power on Cayuga Lake line?

[sodusbay]

Hi, maybe some active NS railroader operating in the Ithaca area can answer this. On Tuesday 14th Dec. the unit coal train through Ithaca to Milliken Station (Lake Ridge) had a lashup of six high-horsepower diesels: 5 (!!) GE 7-40 in NS colors and 1 SD60 (ex-Conrail). This seems overpowering for a 100-car coal train. They usually have three 6-axles, not six. Any explanation!

(It sure was some sweet stack talk as they accelerated up the lake after passing Stewart Park... echoing off the hills)

[SRS125]

I can rember seeing trains go pu there with Locomotives on both ends back befor the Conrail split CR would have 2 or 3 Units pulling and 2 or 3 on the end in tow. The crews would drop the power on the lead end and push the cars in there place then couple onto the locos that were on the head end then grab the empty cars and head out of town.

[sodusbay]

I remember that too. But this was all on the head end.

[SRS125]

maybe this was an emergency run? I heard a few storys about NS doing a lot of track work on that section of rail such as replaceing ties and so forth. Maybe they got a long enought passing sideing to run around the train??

[ACLfan]

Of course, it could have been a motive power balancing move, with between 1 - 3 units simply "hitchhiking" along to be cut off and set out at some location(s) along the route for assignments on other trains where power is needed, but not available.

ACLfan

[SRS125]

The line ends at the power plant but this is also a possable thought.

[sodusbay]

I doubt this explanation, because the return traffic is much lighter than the up-lake traffic. It's coal up (100+ cars), salt back (max. 30 cars).

[AmtrakFan]

Maybe 2 of units broke?

John

[johnpbarlow]

There is a grade of significance between Van Etten Jct on the ex-LV main and Ithaca. Between Ithaca and the Ludlowville it's pretty flat

I remember back in the 70's pre-Conrail, the LV would bring the coal (delivered by the B&O at P&L Jct in Caledonia NY) up from Sayre with road units and then change to to 3-4 SW switchers. The switchers would crawl up the lake shore on pretty rickety track.

[Guest]

Maybe they wanted the train to go a little faster.

[sodusbay]

The track was rebuilt in the summer of 1984. Before it was very rickety, as you say, and the switch was made in the Clinton St. yards. But since 1984 it's mainline standards. Speed limits are fairly low (not sure exactly, but I think 30 outside of Ithaca and 10 inside). There are lots of small grade crossings and the line goes through the back (front) yard of cottages. I'm sure six units weren't needed to maintain 30mph on the completely flat track.

You are right about the grade S of Ithaca (to North Spencer summit). This goes from about 390ft a.s.l to about 1100ft. in about 8 miles. But the coal comes down the hill, it doesn't go up.

[SRS125]

NS was replaceing Ties on that line a year or 2 ago as well I rmber seeing the piles of used ties all over the place.

[joshuahouse]

The track was rebuilt in the summer of 1984. Before it was very rickety, as you say, and the switch was made in the Clinton St. yards. But since 1984 it's mainline standards. Speed limits are fairly low (not sure exactly, but I think 30 outside of Ithaca and 10 inside). There are lots of small grade crossings and the line goes through the back (front) yard of cottages. I'm sure six units weren't needed to maintain 30mph on the completely flat track.

You are right about the grade S of Ithaca (to North Spencer summit). This goes from about 390ft a.s.l to about 1100ft. in about 8 miles. But the coal comes down the hill, it doesn't go up.

How much salt goes out? (it does still go out by train, right?)

[TerryC]

This is probably irrelevant, but it is AMAZING that somebody on this forum lives near me!! I wish I could have seen that lash up. That line is where I saw these two units. http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8107 http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8109

Ithaca is Gorges
HAPPY BOXING DAY

[sodusbay]

The salt definitely goes by rail. Sorry I don't know the carloads, but they are substantial. Cargill (who bought Cayuga Rock Salt in 1970) applied for a license to expand the mine deep under Cayuga Lake last year. There was some environmental impact problems and a Freedom-of-Information act request that has lead to litigation, still on-going (http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/st ... 18116.html)

"The expansion would add 5,056 acres to Cargill's 13,417 subterranean acres and 260 surface acreage, some of which will cross under Cayuga Lake"

So they intend to be shipping salt for quite a while!

There is a run M-F from Sayre to Lansing, sometimes on to NYSEG, which typically goes through Ithaca about 4 or 5pm northbound. The crossing at Stewart Park is where they begin to open the throttle. A good trainspotting location is behind the cottages on NY34 about two miles north of there, where NY34 starts up a long hill. The cliffs come right down to the lake shore, quite a sound!