We don't know what kind of deal they worked out with the State for installing the rail on the lower road. Perhaps this rail is payment.
Mike
Mike
Railroad Forums
Ribbon Rail on the Back Road?
- Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Moderator: MEC407
Someone else mentioned to me that they thought the welded rail on the back road was somehow part of the Amtrak project. Not sure how, cuz Amtrak at least for now isn't going that way, but it kinda makes sense as Pan Am isn't known for buying/installing new welded rail.
Good possibility due to the recent reconstruction of Danville Junction. It would be foolish for Pan Am to spend this kind of money when the potential for the State of Maine to upgrade the track for them is there.
Mike
Mike
roberttosh wrote:Someone else mentioned to me that they thought the welded rail on the back road was somehow part of the Amtrak project. Not sure how, cuz Amtrak at least for now isn't going that way, but it kinda makes sense as Pan Am isn't known for buying/installing new welded rail.Sounds to me that they were confusing the work on the Back Road with the work on the "Lower Road", after all they're both north of Portland and most people under age 60 likely don't realize that the railroad has/had twin main lines heading north.
gokeefe
miketrainnut wrote:Good possibility due to the recent reconstruction of Danville Junction. It would be foolish for Pan Am to spend this kind of money when the potential for the State of Maine to upgrade the track for them is there.Mike,
Mike
This doesn't make sense in some ways as Danville Junction was done in such a way as to allow a transition SLR---->PAR (or so I understood) and it is well known that the State has always wanted to try and use the SLR line from Portland to Danville Junction.
In theory this would have made the stretch of the Back Road from Royal Junction to Danville Junction irrelevant to future plans for passenger service. I also felt this was understandable as this section has a lot of curves and goes through a marshy area.
gokeefe
gokeefe wrote:It wouldn't even necessarily branch off at Danville. Most of the commentary I've seen has them still anticipating that service would be via a station at the airport, on the SLR. Direct service to downtown L/A itself is way down on the "nice-to-have / unnecessary" list, and I'm personally not in the camp that thinks NB service out of Lewiston via the Back Road is a great idea, given that the BR goes nowhere near anyplace useful in Augusta.miketrainnut wrote:Good possibility due to the recent reconstruction of Danville Junction. It would be foolish for Pan Am to spend this kind of money when the potential for the State of Maine to upgrade the track for them is there.Mike,
Mike
This doesn't make sense in some ways as Danville Junction was done in such a way as to allow a transition SLR---->PAR (or so I understood) and it is well known that the State has always wanted to try and use the SLR line from Portland to Danville Junction.
"...And then I thought, every time some company creates a more powerful locomotive does Superman become more powerful as well or is he stuck at 1938 locomotive power levels?" - A friend of mine elsewhere
Anything I post here is mine alone and does not represent the views of my employer.
Anything I post here is mine alone and does not represent the views of my employer.
gokeefe wrote:I know that the general consensus is that any passenger service to L/A would be done via SLR, but I took a look at quite a few spots on the line last week and it doesn't look like it's been touched. It still confuses me as to why they'd do the ribbon rail on the BR if they're not going to use it for passenger?miketrainnut wrote:Good possibility due to the recent reconstruction of Danville Junction. It would be foolish for Pan Am to spend this kind of money when the potential for the State of Maine to upgrade the track for them is there.Mike,
Mike
This doesn't make sense in some ways as Danville Junction was done in such a way as to allow a transition SLR---->PAR (or so I understood) and it is well known that the State has always wanted to try and use the SLR line from Portland to Danville Junction.
In theory this would have made the stretch of the Back Road from Royal Junction to Danville Junction irrelevant to future plans for passenger service. I also felt this was understandable as this section has a lot of curves and goes through a marshy area.
Because the rail is over 30 years old or more and the line is down to 10 mph and 25....
newpylong wrote:Because the rail is over 30 years old or more and the line is down to 10 mph and 25....Obviously, but what I'm examining is the timing. Nothing gets done for - yup, 30 years - and now with this whole new expansion they finally decide it's worth something doing, despite the fact that the line has gone that long without a single mark of progress.
Maybe the Pony's helping out with this? 
With the talk of reopening the Waterville ramp,they gotta move those pigs faster than 10mph!
With the talk of reopening the Waterville ramp,they gotta move those pigs faster than 10mph!
Peter B&MMEC
Federal/State money pays for D/E service are improvements. Amtrak pays some type of occupancy fee to run the D/E so maintenance money that PAR would have to spend to maintain the original D/E lines Portland-MBTA turf is pretty well offset by govt and AMTK monies.
NS pays half the money for the PAS service areas (which, granted, half the money for PAS is footed by PAR and this is more than they have spent in the past, but they have a 40mph rr for the cost of a 20mph railroad, I'd say the costs can be offset.). MBTA turf is maintained to pretty good standards by the State of Mass.
Thats 2/3 of the PAR system being maintained to 40mph or better for the cost of essentially maintaining 1/3 system. That frees up A LOT of money for the 1/3 of the system unsubsidized by outside parties.
My guess would be, that after seeing operational benefits of running a railroad at TT speed, someone up in the PAR administration may have made the decision to rebuild to TT the Maine portion of the system. And hey, they have money saved from other areas of their network to pay for this work. So I would wager that both NS and the D/E are responsible, indirectly, for the improvements.
As to the "why" on the choice of ribbon rail. I would guess, employing basic economics, that they purchased the rail in bulk as part of the D/E or PAS upgrades. Buying in larger quantities would help lower costs, so maybe they can install ribbon on all their lines for the same price as buying ribbon for the D/E and jointed rail for the rest of Maine.
Again all this is pure speculation, but it makes sense to me. :D
NS pays half the money for the PAS service areas (which, granted, half the money for PAS is footed by PAR and this is more than they have spent in the past, but they have a 40mph rr for the cost of a 20mph railroad, I'd say the costs can be offset.). MBTA turf is maintained to pretty good standards by the State of Mass.
Thats 2/3 of the PAR system being maintained to 40mph or better for the cost of essentially maintaining 1/3 system. That frees up A LOT of money for the 1/3 of the system unsubsidized by outside parties.
My guess would be, that after seeing operational benefits of running a railroad at TT speed, someone up in the PAR administration may have made the decision to rebuild to TT the Maine portion of the system. And hey, they have money saved from other areas of their network to pay for this work. So I would wager that both NS and the D/E are responsible, indirectly, for the improvements.
As to the "why" on the choice of ribbon rail. I would guess, employing basic economics, that they purchased the rail in bulk as part of the D/E or PAS upgrades. Buying in larger quantities would help lower costs, so maybe they can install ribbon on all their lines for the same price as buying ribbon for the D/E and jointed rail for the rest of Maine.
Again all this is pure speculation, but it makes sense to me. :D
Does anyone have any photos of the new rail throughout where it has been dropped and where it is being installed? If so, please post a link. Thank you.
Way back in the last century (1999) I noted a rail replacement crew laying CWR in Auburn. Last year I noted CWR up around Old town as well. It seems that it has been used on the system from time to time. I still like the fact that this RR is like a museum and that much of the old MEC ROW is still intact - jointed rail and all. Living in the midwest with NS/CSX the fast mainlines do get to be somewhat boring at times - hence my fascination with the GRS/PA.
my 2 cents...
later
shawn
my 2 cents...
later
shawn
"Someone" has provided some clarification regarding where & how this project is getting done.
You are correct, the State does wish to use the SLR line. Also those who have posted that this is related to the Downeaster upgrade are incorrect... at least directly. This is a result of the Downeaster upgrade project but is not financed by the State. What's happening here is that all the rail removed from the DE upgrade (Stick rail) is being sent out to a company that is welding it into relay rail. So in exchange, PAR is getting welded rail. So if you factor in the fact that they didn't pay to upgrade from Portland - Brunswick and are turning in that rail as well as the rail to be replaced on the back road, for welded rail, then they are essentially getting this upgrade for free.
gokeefe
gokeefe wrote:"Someone" has provided some clarification regarding where & how this project is getting done.To quote a stereotypical Maine phrase: "Well, ain't that somethin!"
You are correct, the State does wish to use the SLR line. Also those who have posted that this is related to the Downeaster upgrade are incorrect... at least directly. This is a result of the Downeaster upgrade project but is not financed by the State. What's happening here is that all the rail removed from the DE upgrade (Stick rail) is being sent out to a company that is welding it into relay rail. So in exchange, PAR is getting welded rail. So if you factor in the fact that they didn't pay to upgrade from Portland - Brunswick and are turning in that rail as well as the rail to be replaced on the back road, for welded rail, then they are essentially getting this upgrade for free.