Intermodal in Portland

[CN9634]

Hi everyone,
I was wondering why doesnt GRS continue the branch by the waterfront to the Portland Intermodal facility? Isnt that a big buisness opportunity? It doesnt make sense to me.

[wolfmom69]

This is a great question "CN" & one I used to ponder, Seeing as the tracks(active track less than 100 yds away!) are close enough to the containers that this old 61 year old could throw a football between them,it is strange. But not really. The bulk of the items are retail products to & from firms within say 50 miles of Portland,most have no rail siding. Wood stoves in,spring water out,are examples. LL Bean may use this,but the bulk of their containers bringing in items to sell from the mid west ,west coast and orient trave by the SLR on intermodal flats,then are hauled 20 miles from the IM yard in Auburn to Freeport. "Orders"to be sold in there retail stores in those places go back in the empty container!! 3 tractors are bust hustling the containers back & forth 24 hrs a day. This would be the same truck or rail haul from Portland to Freeport,but the rates and time across Canada are superior to Guildords "western connections". Very sad that Portland's largest city & port DOESN'T have "piggyback facility of any type! But then the "yuppies" who have been allowed to dominate the politics of Portland for a quarter century,do not want to see "a working waterfront",or heavy industry,to blight the beauty of their "artsy craftsy" dream. Wish some of my dead relatives would arise from the dead,with their bailing hooks in hand,and that these longshoremen would "take action"to the botiques & upscale shops that now pollute this once proud workingmans waterfront!!!!!! Bud

[MEC407]

But then the "yuppies" who have been allowed to dominate the politics of Portland for a quarter century,do not want to see "a working waterfront",or heavy industry,to blight the beauty of their "artsy craftsy" dream.

Hi Bud,

I think you might be exaggerating just a little bit with that statement. If Portland officials didn't want a working waterfront, why would they be going out of their way to encourage big industrial companies like Cianbro to continue building oil rigs and tankers?

The artsy-fartsy stuff can, and does, coexist quite well with the heavy industrial stuff. The people who come to Portland on cruise ships (and spend big money at those artsy-fartsy shops and restaurants) often remark on how they enjoy the "quaintness" of Commercial Street and the interesting combination of commercial fishermen, pleasure boats, gift shops, and even oil rigs.

Having said that, I too have often wondered why there isn't a full-scale rail-water-truck intermodal facility in Portland. I'm sure there are a number of reasons why it would be a good thing, and perhaps many reasons why it might not be feasible. A lot of that property is still owned by Guilford, who would probably insist that the city buy it from them if the city wanted to start up a piggyback yard. And you know as well as I do that Guilford's asking price is going to be up somewhere in the neighborhood of the International Space Station...

[wolfmom69]

ONE business,and the Cianchettes have a helluva lot of political pull. Where is the BIW "dry dock"? Dry Cargo Ships?,and dont get me started on what is/will happen to the Commercial Fishermen! Yes,I agree it can coexist-but "they"wont let it. How much bitchin has been about the"smoky,noisy Maine Narrow Gauge"? As far as Guilfords land in the Yard 8 & Wharf #3(China Clay unloading in the good old days)thats all been planned. never will see any "industry",but hotels,condos,marinas & restaurants. New Hotel on Commercial St. in former industrial area(W.L.Blake) and have you been to East Deering lately?? Webber Fuels had bought the old Sun Oil bulk plant,which had been served by coastal tankers and a rail siding(which Weber didnt use). prime zoned, industrial land,but after a couple of years of fighting bitchy neighbors,Weber sold it,and a marina is going up.While your "logic"would make coexistence seem OK-you do not know the NIMBY/YUPPIE mentality. I do. I deal with them daily and try my best,when provoked,to get them out of their "comfort zone",and it doesn't take much! Bud

[MEC407]

Trust me Bud, the NIMBYs irritate me just as much as they irritate you. A 3-bedroom ranch in Wells (my hometown) could be had for about $80K in 1990. Now, just 15 years later, that same home would sell for $300K. I'd love to live in Wells and raise my own family there, but there's just no way I'll ever be able to even come close to affording it if the real estate prices keep climbing.

Unfortunately, NIMBYs are everywhere and they'll probably always be everywhere. As more and more folks from NH, MA, CT and NY move to southern Maine to get away from the crap they're dealing with in their home states, they're willing to pay big bucks for houses up here (which us natives can't afford), and when they finally get settled in, they want their pretty little American dream, free of anything "unsightly" -- which inevitably includes things like trains and railroads.

[camster202]

Well said, 407!

[Cowford]

If you ask the question, "why can't there be a waterfront intermodal terminal built in Portland," you first have to ask, "is there business potential for the railroad?" First off, container vessels are getting ever larger. Economics dictate centralized terminals to cycle the expensive ships as quickly as possible. There has been significant port consolidation over the years. Now, only a few ports are viable - Halifax, New York, Baltimore, Charleston, and Miami for containers on the East Coast. Other ports have their niches - Jacksonville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Wilmington. Boston has been relegated to a feeder port as has been Portland. Which means that most of traffic going through Portland is locally originated or terminated. Which means, as Bud states, that it's a very short distance between customer and dock. No-one in their right mind would suggest putting a container on rail and railing up to Freeport, transloading and trucking to LL Bean.

As for domestic COFC or TOFC, Boston, Worcester and Ayer are right down the road, where centralized pools of containers, trailers and chassis provide operating efficiency. The business of hauling a trailer to an interchange point 150 miles away would be marginal at best. The trucking (drayage) cost to Worcester from Portland is probably about $250/tl. Subtract a discount for slower rail service, and you're not looking a lot of profit when terminal costs are factored in. CSX probably prefers a MA termination point: Economies of scale (Portland would siphon off some of these economies), fewer blocks to make up at distant terminals, fewer train starts, and the same revenue.

And if you're going to do it at all... do it in Rigby. More space, cheaper operating costs, and less eye-sore. (I remember when the Old Port wasn't artsy-fartsy- you wouldn't dare to go down there at night... and who would like to return to the days of Sappi-Westbrook stinking up Portland on a daily basis?)

[MEC407]

and who would like to return to the days of Sappi-Westbrook stinking up Portland on a daily basis?

I definitely don't miss the "boiled cabbage" smell, that's for damn sure!

Now, if B&M Baked Beans were to expand, that'd be fine. I like that smell.

[NRGeep]

When doing a "cost/benefit" analysis it seems trucks would be preferable but when pollution and wear and tear on our highways and bridges is factored in it seems moving the containers etc by rail is superior to the trucks.

[CN9634]

and it has also been mentioned that congestion of highways would lead to more opportunities for railways carring traffic in Maine, but guilford seems slow to embrace that.

[markhb]

LOL... when searching for something else I found this old thread! The more things change....