CTC Single tracking of B&M and Maine Central Main Lines?

[dnelson]

You're correct about the Cobbosseecontee Branch, it was taken out of service in 1985. I mentioned it not to support the Lower Road's case as a better main line, but rather in the response to the notion that the Lower Road was a customer-less line. All the major Back Road customers are/were on branches too...

They are now, but in the late '80s, there were quite a few customers directly on the Back Road. There were several in Oakland, several in Winthrop, several in the Lewiston/Auburn area, and so on.

There were a lot more customers on the Lower Road in the 80s too.

Which they retained access to... the ones in Augusta and the Brunswick area. The Cobbosseecontee Branch had been abandoned already (and was only down to a single customer anyway), and there really wasn't anything else between Augusta and Brunswick.

That is correct.

[gokeefe]

What about Associated Grocers in South Gardiner and York Tube (?)? When did they come offline?

[highwayman]

There is one thing about the lower road I haven't seen mentioned. My memory is a little foggy, but I seem to remember bad floods in the late 80's having a lot to do with the decision to discontinue service on the lower road. I traveled to Maine often at the time, and remember the Kennebec River was violently torrential. I believe the Augusta bridge over the Kennebec was severely damaged by the flood waters. Guilford, decided not to do repairs and reroute all traffic over the back road. Others may have clearer memories and add to this.

[highwayman]

What about Associated Grocers in South Gardiner and York Tube (?)? When did they come offline?

I forget exactly when, but Associated Grocers moved to a brand new warehouse, right off of I-295 on the south side of Gardener that wasn't served by rail. In 2012 they went out of bussiness.

[gokeefe]

Yes I was aware of that.....but I think that move may have taken place after the Lower Road was shutdown for freight business south of Augusta. Regardless, I have been wondering when they stopped taking rail loads as I suspect they may have done so well into the early 1980s until the Motor Carrier Act made trucking more competitive.

[CPF363]

For historical references, the strikes were in '86 (the BMWE initiated strike on the MEC) and the '87 (the ST initiated safety violation strike), not '87 and '88.

The B&M pre- Guilford did get rid of the double track railroad - that is literally two tracks from Rotterdam to Boston- but Guilford drastically reduced this further in the late 80s and early 90s.

Just on the Fitchburg:

-The double track and CTC was pulled up on the Rotterdam branch
-The double track was reduced from Snyders down to Ferry Street just outside Mechanicville
-The double iron was killed from North Pownal to Williamstown
-The double iron was killed from Rices to Shelburne Falls - later to be reinstated as the slow track between Buckland and Shelburne.
-The double iron was killed between West Deerfield and Greenfield.
-The double iron was killed between Gardner and Westminster.

By my quick math that is a reduction of 42 miles of double track there alone.

It has always been puzzling as to why Guilford removed the western end of the Number 1 track between roughly MP 405 and Rices (CPF-406) verses the eastern end of the track between Shelburne Falls (CPF-398) and MP 400 at the top of the grade just west of where Route 112 crosses over the main line, with the eastern end being between crossings on a hill verses being on the more level track along the river where there are no crossings. Does anyone remember the hundreds of stored B&M boxcars along the river east of Rices? It is surprising as to why Guilford kept 11 miles of double track between Erving (CPF-370) and Montague (CPF-381) and even converted the uni-directional signaling (rule 251 territory) on both tracks to bi-directional signalling (rule 261 territory). I remember making a trip to Reynolds and Snyders Bridge where the two main tracks were and seeing the #2 track covered in mud, weeds and brush, imagine they wished that they that second track to CPF-461 and at least a portion of the entirely removed #1 track between Williamstown and North Pownal. Hopefully at least a portion of the former #2 track can be restored between Greenfield and West Deerfield and between Gardner and East Gardner someday to improve system flexibility where some of the old main track remains today.

[Watchman318]

What about Associated Grocers in South Gardiner and York Tube (?)? When did they come offline?

I saw a switch or two for York Tube listed in an employee timetable, and wondered what that was. Turned out they made paper tubes for paper towels, etc.

I don't know if Maine Coast or Safe Handling ever served AG or York Tube. Maine Coast did deliver boxcars to Pine State Distributors/Trading/whatever in Gardiner, but the other two might have been gone by then. Google Maps and my computer were quarreling just now, but I did see a notation that the Pine State Beverages location in Gardiner is closed. I think the last time I saw a Street View of the former AG warehouse, it was for sale or lease.

[newpylong]

For historical references, the strikes were in '86 (the BMWE initiated strike on the MEC) and the '87 (the ST initiated safety violation strike), not '87 and '88.

The B&M pre- Guilford did get rid of the double track railroad - that is literally two tracks from Rotterdam to Boston- but Guilford drastically reduced this further in the late 80s and early 90s.

Just on the Fitchburg:

-The double track and CTC was pulled up on the Rotterdam branch
-The double track was reduced from Snyders down to Ferry Street just outside Mechanicville
-The double iron was killed from North Pownal to Williamstown
-The double iron was killed from Rices to Shelburne Falls - later to be reinstated as the slow track between Buckland and Shelburne.
-The double iron was killed between West Deerfield and Greenfield.
-The double iron was killed between Gardner and Westminster.

By my quick math that is a reduction of 42 miles of double track there alone.

It has always been puzzling as to why Guilford removed the western end of the Number 1 track between roughly MP 405 and Rices (CPF-406) verses the eastern end of the track between Shelburne Falls (CPF-398) and MP 400 at the top of the grade just west of where Route 112 crosses over the main line, with the eastern end being between crossings on a hill verses being on the more level track along the river where there are no crossings. Does anyone remember the hundreds of stored B&M boxcars along the river east of Rices? It is surprising as to why Guilford kept 11 miles of double track between Erving (CPF-370) and Montague (CPF-381) and even converted the uni-directional signaling (rule 251 territory) on both tracks to bi-directional signalling (rule 261 territory). I remember making a trip to Reynolds and Snyders Bridge where the two main tracks were and seeing the #2 track covered in mud, weeds and brush, imagine they wished that they that second track to CPF-461 and at least a portion of the entirely removed #1 track between Williamstown and North Pownal. Hopefully at least a portion of the former #2 track can be restored between Greenfield and West Deerfield and between Gardner and East Gardner someday to improve system flexibility where some of the old main track remains today.

They removed everything west of Buckland CPF-402 and the reason they did that vs to Shelburne was simple - the curves. The grade is not that bad vs how quickly the rail wears on those curves. Also to maintain the connection to the Trolley museum for the once a decade move.

If they decide to ever double track west of Greenfield again it would make sense to only go to Wisdom Way - they pulled out the interlocking at West Deerfield.

[cu29640]

Thanks for the all the great info.

So the Mountain Div still has rail intact?

Was MEC CTC to Waterville? Is it still? on both routes..lower and back? The Main Central shortline runs most of the lower route now...with PanAm only running into Brunswick?

The Pan Am main from Portland to Lewiston and then Waterville seems to vary greatly in maintenance. From Portant to Lewiston its nice welded rail...then switches to slow order jointed rail. Why the variation?

Pan AM still runs from Brunswick up the Lewiston...but yet severed their connection with main line...how can cutting a few feet amount to such savings...to make it worth while to burn your bridges.

[CPF363]

Thanks for the all the great info.

So the Mountain Div still has rail intact?

Was MEC CTC to Waterville? Is it still? on both routes..lower and back? The Main Central shortline runs most of the lower route now...with PanAm only running into Brunswick?

True, the Mountain division is in tact from Mountain Jct. to St. Johnsbury, although much of the line is not useable, notably from Westbrook to the N.H./Maine state line and Whitefield to St. Johnsbury.

Between Waterville (CPF-113) and Royal Jct (CPF-185), there is a section of CTC between Waterville and Oakland (CPF-119) that is CTC and a section of ABS roughly between Leeds and Danville.

[690]

Thanks for the all the great info.

So the Mountain Div still has rail intact?

For the most part.

Was MEC CTC to Waterville? Is it still? on both routes..lower and back? The Main Central shortline runs most of the lower route now...with PanAm only running into Brunswick?

Signals are all still in place on the Lower Road, at least west of Augusta. But I highly doubt they work, and that's just one of a few issues that would need to be fixed for the Lower Road to be operational again. Pan Am still owns the trackage into North Augusta, and runs down there up to twice as week, depending on whether they need it or not. A few hundred feet of rail below the new Route 3 overpass in Augusta was "borrowed", so there isn't any track in that section any more, but it's not very hard to find some other rail and patch it back in place. As of right now, no one operates on the Lower Road between Brunswick and Augusta, since there just isn't any reason to.

The Pan Am main from Portland to Lewiston and then Waterville seems to vary greatly in maintenance. From Portant to Lewiston its nice welded rail...then switches to slow order jointed rail. Why the variation?

There are chunks of jointed rail between Portland and Lewiston, just as there are sections of welded rail east of Lewiston... Annabessacook, Belgrade and Oakland all come to mind for sections with welded rail. Simple reason is that is what was there when they bought the Maine Central back in '81. Also, the jointed rail isn't exclusively slow order, they have some spots which are 25 and jointed rail (although probably not for much longer with the roadbed starting to thaw).

Pan AM still runs from Brunswick up the Lewiston...but yet severed their connection with main line...how can cutting a few feet amount to such savings...to make it worth while to burn your bridges.

There was never a connection between the Lewiston Lower and the Back Road. They ended only a few hundred feet apart, yes, but there is a major elevation difference that would have resulted in one hell of a grade. They retained ownership in Lewiston so the State of Maine couldn't create a connection with the SLR and the operator of the Rockland Branch, thereby keeping all that traffic captive to them.

[690]

There is one thing about the lower road I haven't seen mentioned. My memory is a little foggy, but I seem to remember bad floods in the late 80's having a lot to do with the decision to discontinue service on the lower road. I traveled to Maine often at the time, and remember the Kennebec River was violently torrential. I believe the Augusta bridge over the Kennebec was severely damaged by the flood waters. Guilford, decided not to do repairs and reroute all traffic over the back road. Others may have clearer memories and add to this.

That flood was in 1987, after they had already let it go. I can't comment on whether the bridge was severely damaged (I doubt it was, since it was built to withstand the much more frequent floods back in the early twentieth century), but the Maine Coast was running over it in the year 2000, so if it was damaged, the State of Maine fixed it up.

[BM6569]

Yeah, that bridge should be in good shape. It's so high above the water.

[690]

Yeah, that bridge should be in good shape. It's so high above the water.

Yeah, the flood only peaked at Water St. in Augusta, if memory serves. Also, the abutments on the bridge are all built to deflect any debris coming down the river (such as Fort Halifax, and the other houses), so between that and the height as mentioned, I highly doubt it actually sustained any damage.

[Watchman318]

The Main Central shortline runs most of the lower route now...with PanAm only running into Brunswick?

Maine Eastern last operated on the Brunswick-Augusta section in 2008, maybe earlier, for a special excursion. I believe they declared that section out-of-service on a bulletin order awhile back.

Signals are all still in place on the Lower Road, at least west of Augusta. But I highly doubt they work, and that's just one of a few issues that would need to be fixed for the Lower Road to be operational again.
As of right now, no one operates on the Lower Road between Brunswick and Augusta, since there just isn't any reason to.

It's been a long time since I heard any rumors of a potential freight customer over that way. I think Maine Eastern still pays the electric bill to keep the batteries in crossing signals charged, and MDOT still patrols the stretch periodically. A year or two ago, a track inspector caught some guy apparently swiping tie plates. The thief jammed on outta there pretty fast.