rb wrote:Whose crews do the PW Mt Tom and Bow trains use when on PAR?Pan Am crews run the trains from Gardner Yard to Mt Tom and return and from New Bond St to Bow and return.
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Pan Am Coal Trains
- Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
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On the derailment thread, there's mention of the P&W coal trains to Bow. How often do these trains run?
it was every night except saturday I think. We usually pick up the power in gardner at 9pm and take it west.
Your definatley confused with Mt. Tom coal trains. For one, Mt. Tom is west of Gardner, Bow is EAST of Gardner. Second, P&W Coal trains bound for Bow have not come out of Gardner for years. And when they did, they used PAR power. Mt. Tom bound P&W coal trains vary. When it's very busy, it's usally 5-6 times a week. Sometimes there are none for days. Other times it's about 3-4. Mt. Tom has some major construction going on so they do not need coal as often as usual. They also frequently have used trucks.
For close to two years now, P&W coal destined for Bow is interchanged at New bond St in Worcester. P&W leaves there power on for the round trip to Bow. The frequency varies. Bow gets three grades of coal. NS brings one grade of coal. P&W brings imported, cheap "Truck" coal and trucks haul in coal from docks in Portsmouth NH. The coal is blended on site at Bow to get the emmisions right. But that will all change soon. The plant is slated to close next month and stay closed till November at the earliest while the two stacks are removed and replced with one with a scrubber system. Once the new system is installed, word is they will be able to burn 100% domestic (NS Delivered) coal and will also get 100 cars of Limestone a month as well. But these details are not 100% set just yet.
As far as the frequency of the P&W deliveries to Bow. It generally went in spurts. as many as 5 a week to as little as one, to anything in between. It all depended on the current need. There was never a normal schedule with the P&W loads.
For close to two years now, P&W coal destined for Bow is interchanged at New bond St in Worcester. P&W leaves there power on for the round trip to Bow. The frequency varies. Bow gets three grades of coal. NS brings one grade of coal. P&W brings imported, cheap "Truck" coal and trucks haul in coal from docks in Portsmouth NH. The coal is blended on site at Bow to get the emmisions right. But that will all change soon. The plant is slated to close next month and stay closed till November at the earliest while the two stacks are removed and replced with one with a scrubber system. Once the new system is installed, word is they will be able to burn 100% domestic (NS Delivered) coal and will also get 100 cars of Limestone a month as well. But these details are not 100% set just yet.
As far as the frequency of the P&W deliveries to Bow. It generally went in spurts. as many as 5 a week to as little as one, to anything in between. It all depended on the current need. There was never a normal schedule with the P&W loads.
Thanks for the detailed reply. Seems to me these trains had a symbol of PWBO/BOPW. If not, what was/is their symbol? And: do they still run from Worcester? I ask, because the past tense was used.
NV290 wrote:it'sme wrote:it was every night except saturday I think. We usually pick up the power in gardner at 9pm and take it west.Your definatley confused with Mt. Tom coal trains. For one, Mt. Tom is west of Gardner, Bow is EAST of Gardner. Second, P&W Coal trains bound for Bow have not come out of Gardner for years. And when they did, they used PAR power. Mt. Tom bound P&W coal trains vary. When it's very busy, it's usally 5-6 times a week. Sometimes there are none for days. Other times it's about 3-4. Mt. Tom has some major construction going on so they do not need coal as often as usual. They also frequently have used trucks.
For close to two years now, P&W coal destined for Bow is interchanged at New bond St in Worcester. P&W leaves there power on for the round trip to Bow. The frequency varies. Bow gets three grades of coal. NS brings one grade of coal. P&W brings imported, cheap "Truck" coal and trucks haul in coal from docks in Portsmouth NH. The coal is blended on site at Bow to get the emmisions right. But that will all change soon. The plant is slated to close next month and stay closed till November at the earliest while the two stacks are removed and replced with one with a scrubber system. Once the new system is installed, word is they will be able to burn 100% domestic (NS Delivered) coal and will also get 100 cars of Limestone a month as well. But these details are not 100% set just yet.
As far as the frequency of the P&W deliveries to Bow. It generally went in spurts. as many as 5 a week to as little as one, to anything in between. It all depended on the current need. There was never a normal schedule with the P&W loads.
Ahaha yup you're right, I never seem to catch the Bow trains only the Mt. Tom ones, my bad. For a while this winter though, I was catching the Mt Tom job every night. We were servicing them every night except sat. They were only getting 30 cars give or take. Sometimes we'd have freight tacked on the tail that we'd have to drop in E. Deerfield.
Rockingham Racer wrote:Thanks for the detailed reply. Seems to me these trains had a symbol of PWBO/BOPW. If not, what was/is their symbol? And: do they still run from Worcester? I ask, because the past tense was used.The P&W Bow bound trains are in fact, PWBO and returning as BOPW.
The Mt. Tom bound versions are PWMT and MTPW respectiveley.
I cant say for certian when the last one was. I know Bow is winding down with coal loads. Last i heard, march has 6 NS loads for the month and thats it. More then likley there will be few if any P&W trains. But they still do run out of Worcester.
NV290 wrote:The P&W Bow bound trains are in fact, PWBO and returning as BOPW.You sure seem to know a lot about PAR/ST, even though you say you don't work for them. You must know somebody in management who is a railfan, and talk to them constantly, to know all the things you correct everybody on (you say you know some "old heads", but I know all the "old heads" on the B&M and none of them are railfans, and none of them would know or care about half the things you know about). I think we should re-name this forum "Ask NV290".
The Mt. Tom bound versions are PWMT and MTPW respectiveley.
I cant say for certian when the last one was. I know Bow is winding down with coal loads. Last i heard, march has 6 NS loads for the month and thats it. More then likley there will be few if any P&W trains. But they still do run out of Worcester.
mick wrote: You sure seem to know a lot about PAR/ST, even though you say you don't work for them. You must know somebody in management who is a railfan, and talk to them constantly, to know all the things you correct everybody on (you say you know some "old heads", but I know all the "old heads" on the B&M and none of them are railfans, and none of them would know or care about half the things you know about). I think we should re-name this forum "Ask NV290".There are plenty of PAR employees from 20+ years to less then 5 who know ALOT about day to day operations. It's not a big company. Word travels fast. I interchange with PAR often, either Rotterdam or Worcester. So i see and talk to people there often.
There are quite a few "old heads" who may not be text book railfans, but they love to talk about traffic and what goes on. And far more then half of managment at PAR are railfans. Info is easy to come by.
When and why did Guilford stop going to Concord to layover while the coal was being unloaded as seen in this picture? If Pan Am takes back Concord could we see more trains like that again?
Also, does PSNH still receive two to three trains a week? I sometime see the train sitting on the Tyngsborough Curve waiting for a crew and was just wondering. It has been a while since I’ve been in the area Concord area, so I’m out of touch with what’s going on.
Also, does PSNH still receive two to three trains a week? I sometime see the train sitting on the Tyngsborough Curve waiting for a crew and was just wondering. It has been a while since I’ve been in the area Concord area, so I’m out of touch with what’s going on.
It takes real skill to choke on air, fall up the stairs and trip over nothing. I have those skills.
I assume they stopped leaving the engines in Concord either A: because NEGS did not want them to, or B: Perini Siding is closer to leave the engines and it wasn't being used anymore by Perini, or C: because they stopped having the crews lay over in Concord around 2000 (however, this has changed, some coal train crews lay over in Concord again, although they cab to Perini to get the engines). The coal train was always called spare, and it was a very desireable call back in the B&M days when the crews got paid on a mileage-based system. They got six days pay for one round trip, or two days work. And some people think we get paid too much now, sheesh.
They are still getting coal trains at Bow, some weeks they don't get any, other weeks it seems like they get one evey day. I guess the only way one could know is if you worked for PSNH, and knew what was "in the pipeline".
They are still getting coal trains at Bow, some weeks they don't get any, other weeks it seems like they get one evey day. I guess the only way one could know is if you worked for PSNH, and knew what was "in the pipeline".
As Mick pointed out, crews still do take rest on occasion in Concord. But usually it's on the P&W coal trains. The crews come up from Worcester and take rest, then bring the empty back. The main reason NS coal train crews (PAR employees) dont normally take rest any more is the trains are not frequent enough and they need crews elsewhere. For the past few years, it takes an average of 3 crews to get the train from Mechanicville to Bow. Then 3 crews to get it back. If there is an empty at the plant when a load arrives, then add on at least another crew. So 6-7 crews if there are no issues. It can take as many 9 crews when problems arise with weather and equipment. Once the RR leaves a crew at the hotel, it is pretty much commiting that crew to that train since Concord is so far off the beaten path.
Even if NEGS goes away, the coal train routine is not likley to change. The way it's setup works fine with leaving the power at Perini siding. This way you can have a load waiting while the empty is assembled and everything works. Taking the power farther north to park it would not serve any purpose.
In a few years, once the speeds on the west end are up to timetable and if the passenger service (and related track upgrades) come to life on the Northern Main Line, then you will probably see the return of a round trip crew.
Even if NEGS goes away, the coal train routine is not likley to change. The way it's setup works fine with leaving the power at Perini siding. This way you can have a load waiting while the empty is assembled and everything works. Taking the power farther north to park it would not serve any purpose.
In a few years, once the speeds on the west end are up to timetable and if the passenger service (and related track upgrades) come to life on the Northern Main Line, then you will probably see the return of a round trip crew.
Fewer (or none at all) Bow coal trains for a while...?
From the Union Leader:
From the Union Leader:
Union Leader wrote:Public Service of New Hampshire suspended operations at Merrimack Station, its flagship, coal-fired power plant in located in Bow because it is cheaper to buy the electricity it needs to serve its estimated 500,000 customers on the open market, a company spokesman and a state utility regulator said Monday.Read more at: http://www.unionleader.com/article/2012 ... 31/-1/news
An oversupply of natural gas and steep drop in natural gas prices are the primary driver behind the Merrimack Station going off-line, PSNH spokesman Martin Murray said.
...
PSNH does not expect to produce much energy at Merrimack Station for six months this year: April through June and again September through November, Frantz said. These traditionally are times of low energy demand, he said.
MEC407
Moderator:
Pan Am Railways — Boston & Maine/Maine Central — Delaware & Hudson
Central Maine & Quebec/Montreal, Maine & Atlantic/Bangor & Aroostook
Providence & Worcester — New England — GE Locomotives
Moderator:
Pan Am Railways — Boston & Maine/Maine Central — Delaware & Hudson
Central Maine & Quebec/Montreal, Maine & Atlantic/Bangor & Aroostook
Providence & Worcester — New England — GE Locomotives
Except for July and August, probably no coal trains coming onto PAR through November? That seems like a complication for PAR Power Control when it goes looking for reliable units.
"A gray crossover is definitely not company transportation."
At the risk of being bounced for going off topic, how is this cheap gas-fired electricity going to get here? I thought the grid was maxed out on every hot or cold day. Of course if we had the Northern Pass, we'd have so much capacity from Hydro Quebec that we wouldn't need Bow at all. But that would dramatically reduce traffic, maybe making operating the line up through NH uneconomic to continue.