CSX Operations East of Beacon Yard and at Readville

[BostonUrbEx]

Does anyone know of any CSX moves which run east out of Beacon Yard (besides the produce train)? Are there any official/known plans as to whether CSX will still be running the produce train upon Beacon Yard's closure (as opposed to a transfer to Pan Am), and if so, where out of?

I'm mostly curious if CSX still services the Globe or not, or any other customers in that area. And I was also wondering if CSX switches out Readville by running via east out of Beacon Yard, swing down the Dorchester Branch, and cross the NEC, or if they just shoot down the Framingham Sub, up the Franklin, and then reverse onto the NEC.

I also see that they have the NEC between Readville and Back Bay listed as within their trackage rights. This is false, no? They can only use the Dorchester north of Readville, I thought.

And, finally, do they own the loop track on the NW pocket of the NEC "interchange"? That's also listed as theirs, but I thought the MBTA picked that up.

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

Everett jobs are going to run thru straight from Framingham after Beacon Park is closed when the Grand Junction switch is reconfigured to tie into the mainline. Other than having to coordinate with a commuter rail schedule with those runs, no changes. And they'll never give it up to PAR; too strategically useful to them to have one northside opening right in the heart of Pan Am operations, esp. one at a port terminal.

Houghton Chemical is staying after Beacon Park closes, so for the time being it will be an active customer and retain its siding along Storrow Dr. Probably served on the same Everett runs. I don't think anybody expects them to be there that much longer, though, before Harvard or the city makes them a godfather offer to relocate so they can redevelop the land next to the Doubletree.

CSX does indeed have rights east of Beacon Park and used to go that way when the Southie port tracks were still in full service, because there's no crossovers to them from the Dorchester Branch. But I don't think they've ever used it post-Big Dig. Everything goes Framingham-Walpole-Readville now because the commuter rail interference of running through Back Bay and reversing through Southampton is so ridiculous it makes no sense for either CSX or MBTA to attempt to hash out a schedule. Globe, etc. are done out of Readville, and the state plans to install a direct crossover from the Dot Branch to Track 61 so reactivated port jobs are direct-accessible.

They don't own any track in the City of Boston any longer. Grand Junction and Track 61 were their last holdings, both dumped in the big Worcester/South Coast sale a few years ago. Any of the connecting bits around South Station have been the T's for decades. Theoretically if there were any customers at Southampton Yard they'd be the carrier, but they don't own any assets.

[boatsmate]

regarding the South Boston Loop I belive CSX conductor wrote a few years ago he made it down there to see what was going on one night. made it as for as teh crossing by the convention center. may bnot have been an official trip though.....

[Tracer]

There is one customer near the loop track, although i am not sure how often they get cars.
http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/#5003/ ... 2&pid=5874

[130MM]

...and the state plans to install a direct crossover from the Dot Branch to Track 61 so reactivated port jobs are direct-accessible.

How does the plan show that happening?

DAW

[fogg1703]

What is the arrangement for CSX (or any freight railroad) to run on the NEC? Is it a set per car/mile fee everywhere, or do they charge more to run on more highly congested areas?

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

...and the state plans to install a direct crossover from the Dot Branch to Track 61 so reactivated port jobs are direct-accessible.

How does the plan show that happening?

DAW

Right here: http://g.co/maps/8n8pu. The crossovers right below the Bypass Rd. overpass where the wired-up Southampton Yard tracks currently merge would be extended to cross over the un-wired Old Colony tracks and onto the Track 61 lead that passes under the Red Line. They'd re-align that one remaining lead to feed straight into this crossover. Easy...tracks were in this configuration before all the cat towers sprung up and Amtrak renovated the area. Currently Track 61 is only direct-accessible from a northbound on the Old Colony, and takes a reverse move to get to from either the Dot Branch or Beacon Park.

[BostonUrbEx]

...and the state plans to install a direct crossover from the Dot Branch to Track 61 so reactivated port jobs are direct-accessible.

How does the plan show that happening?

DAW

Right here: http://g.co/maps/8n8pu. The crossovers right below the Bypass Rd. overpass where the wired-up Southampton Yard tracks currently merge would be extended to cross over the un-wired Old Colony tracks and onto the Track 61 lead that passes under the Red Line. They'd re-align that one remaining lead to feed straight into this crossover. Easy...tracks were in this configuration before all the cat towers sprung up and Amtrak renovated the area. Currently Track 61 is only direct-accessible from a northbound on the Old Colony, and takes a reverse move to get to from either the Dot Branch or Beacon Park.

Is this slated to actually happen regardless of no customers yet, or not until their actually is a customer? Seeing as you are perhaps one of the most knowledgeable on these things here, do you think MassPort really will be able to lure any rail customers in to the Seaport? I heard Harpoon Brewery was willing to sign on to a Track 61 expansion to service their brewery if any expansion does happen, but I don't know too much more.

EDIT: Also, what about the MBTA's proposed West First St yard for locomotive/MOW use? Is this progressing in any way?

[MBTA1016]

Urby back bay is listed only because there is a local to the Boston herald and the siding is between back bay and south station.

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

...and the state plans to install a direct crossover from the Dot Branch to Track 61 so reactivated port jobs are direct-accessible.

How does the plan show that happening?

DAW

Right here: http://g.co/maps/8n8pu. The crossovers right below the Bypass Rd. overpass where the wired-up Southampton Yard tracks currently merge would be extended to cross over the un-wired Old Colony tracks and onto the Track 61 lead that passes under the Red Line. They'd re-align that one remaining lead to feed straight into this crossover. Easy...tracks were in this configuration before all the cat towers sprung up and Amtrak renovated the area. Currently Track 61 is only direct-accessible from a northbound on the Old Colony, and takes a reverse move to get to from either the Dot Branch or Beacon Park.

Is this slated to actually happen regardless of no customers yet, or not until their actually is a customer? Seeing as you are perhaps one of the most knowledgeable on these things here, do you think MassPort really will be able to lure any rail customers in to the Seaport? I heard Harpoon Brewery was willing to sign on to a Track 61 expansion to service their brewery if any expansion does happen, but I don't know too much more.

EDIT: Also, what about the MBTA's proposed West First St yard for locomotive/MOW use? Is this progressing in any way?

The track connection they'll get around to when they get around to...yes, because it'll make moves to the MOW yard easier. They don't plan to wait until Track 61 is in use again before doing it. No schedule attached to that project yet, as it's small enough that they can probably go fishing for some Widett Circle track work to tack it on to.

The Track 61 upgrades are specced out in a TIGER grant: http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority ... Boston.pdf. $11M total, most of it for a new spur and mini-yard on Fid Kennedy Ave. inside the industrial park because that's where all the potential business is (incl. Harpoon and New England Seafood). The existing track along Drydock Ave. misses most of the potential revenue in Marine Industrial Park, so that was why the line never did more than a trace in its later years. I don't know how much new business would be at stake, but it would be a bit more sustainable on the spur than on the existing International Cargo dock tracks.

CSX did a test run out to the dock a few years ago and found the existing track to be in decent operable shape. Only replacement needed was the stretch through the parking lots which need the asphalt dug out for new ties and ballast. The lead tracks around the convention center are brand new circa-2000 construction, and the existing on-dock tracks don't need much of anything. So almost all of the money goes to constructing the new spur. That's all Massport's baby since they bought the tracks; CSX has committed to serving whoever's there as part of the line sale. It'll definitely happen because it's pretty basic work and the agency has done a decent job keeping the flow of funding going to similar projects like haul roads. They've been pushing at this TIGER grant faithfully enough that they're a good bet to get it one of these days. The bigger debate is over whether there's anything Massport can do to bring in the meaningful scale of intermodal it says it wants to fashion out of rail-on-port in the City of Boston. But there's many other unrelated port initiatives feeding into that. Getting the tracks reactivated doesn't register on that scale, so it's pretty noncontroversial assumption that CSX freight trains will indeed be regularly back to the docks in some minor capacity within the next 8-10 years.

[TomNelligan]

What is the arrangement for CSX (or any freight railroad) to run on the NEC? Is it a set per car/mile fee everywhere, or do they charge more to run on more highly congested areas?

Unless something has changed lately, the general arrangement is a flat fee per car-mile. But when you run freight is of course subject to Amtrak dispatching.

[130MM]

...and the state plans to install a direct crossover from the Dot Branch to Track 61 so reactivated port jobs are direct-accessible.

How does the plan show that happening?

DAW

Right here: http://g.co/maps/8n8pu. The crossovers right below the Bypass Rd. overpass where the wired-up Southampton Yard tracks currently merge would be extended to cross over the un-wired Old Colony tracks and onto the Track 61 lead that passes under the Red Line. They'd re-align that one remaining lead to feed straight into this crossover. Easy...tracks were in this configuration before all the cat towers sprung up and Amtrak renovated the area. Currently Track 61 is only direct-accessible from a northbound on the Old Colony, and takes a reverse move to get to from either the Dot Branch or Beacon Park.

Is this slated to actually happen regardless of no customers yet, or not until their actually is a customer? Seeing as you are perhaps one of the most knowledgeable on these things here, do you think MassPort really will be able to lure any rail customers in to the Seaport? I heard Harpoon Brewery was willing to sign on to a Track 61 expansion to service their brewery if any expansion does happen, but I don't know too much more.

EDIT: Also, what about the MBTA's proposed West First St yard for locomotive/MOW use? Is this progressing in any way?

The track connection they'll get around to when they get around to...yes, because it'll make moves to the MOW yard easier. They don't plan to wait until Track 61 is in use again before doing it. No schedule attached to that project yet, as it's small enough that they can probably go fishing for some Widett Circle track work to tack it on to.

The Track 61 upgrades are specced out in a TIGER grant: http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority ... Boston.pdf. $11M total, most of it for a new spur and mini-yard on Fid Kennedy Ave. inside the industrial park because that's where all the potential business is (incl. Harpoon and New England Seafood). The existing track along Drydock Ave. misses most of the potential revenue in Marine Industrial Park, so that was why the line never did more than a trace in its later years. I don't know how much new business would be at stake, but it would be a bit more sustainable on the spur than on the existing International Cargo dock tracks.

CSX did a test run out to the dock a few years ago and found the existing track to be in decent operable shape. Only replacement needed was the stretch through the parking lots which need the asphalt dug out for new ties and ballast. The lead tracks around the convention center are brand new circa-2000 construction, and the existing on-dock tracks don't need much of anything. So almost all of the money goes to constructing the new spur. That's all Massport's baby since they bought the tracks; CSX has committed to serving whoever's there as part of the line sale. It'll definitely happen because it's pretty basic work and the agency has done a decent job keeping the flow of funding going to similar projects like haul roads. They've been pushing at this TIGER grant faithfully enough that they're a good bet to get it one of these days. The bigger debate is over whether there's anything Massport can do to bring in the meaningful scale of intermodal it says it wants to fashion out of rail-on-port in the City of Boston. But there's many other unrelated port initiatives feeding into that. Getting the tracks reactivated doesn't register on that scale, so it's pretty noncontroversial assumption that CSX freight trains will indeed be regularly back to the docks in some minor capacity within the next 8-10 years.

Maybe it's just me, but I could find no mention of any trackwork at Southampton St. to facilitate a new connection to Track 61 in the linked document. Is there another funding source, and/or plans to look at? While anything can be done, given enough money; connecting the Dorchester directly would require installing diamonds in an elevated curve on the Old Colony. As well as there would have to be other things investigated: there is a substantial elevation difference between the Old Colony, and the freight track at that point. And what the vertical clearance under the Midland Bridge?

I'd really like to see what plans you can link to.

DAW

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

Maybe it's just me, but I could find no mention of any trackwork at Southampton St. to facilitate a new connection to Track 61 in the linked document. Is there another funding source, and/or plans to look at? While anything can be done, given enough money; connecting the Dorchester directly would require installing diamonds in an elevated curve on the Old Colony. As well as there would have to be other things investigated: there is a substantial elevation difference between the Old Colony, and the freight track at that point. And what the vertical clearance under the Midland Bridge?

I'd really like to see what plans you can link to.

DAW

That's how the tracks used to go...straight off the Dot Branch through a diamond and under the bridge. The diamond was torn out in the mid-90's with the construction of the Pike tunnel and the Haul Road. http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials. ... &year=1978

There aren't any schematics from the state on this stretch of track because all the presentations they've been giving are about the terminal properties themselves. This presentation gives a little bit of history about the area: http://www.ctps.org/bostonmpo/5_meeting ... rridor.pdf. It is in the State Freight and Rail Plan that Framingham-Walpole-Readville-Southie is the preferred port access, not the Old Colony out of Middleboro.

From what the pictures in that presentation look like the bridge may be a little low. How much so I don't know. The track grades crossing through the yard aren't an issue here; elevation hasn't changed since the old diamond went away. Height situation and what, if anything, can be done is what would require further study. But you're not getting anything 19'6" up the Old Colony, Dorchester Branch, or east of Beacon Park so high clearances are moot. Only constraint is if they're restricted at all to undersize from the norm, and I don't know if they were. Line probably would not have survived the whole of the Conrail era if it had crippled heights.

[Teamdriver]

I found this, it might be of interest in a nostalgic sense, being east of Beacon Park. It is NH RR era though.

Downtown Boston Freight

''Yes, Boston once had a lot of rail freight. On a large Fairchild Aerial Survey of the Railroad facilities which, judging from the script symbol applied, is from the Dumaine era,looks north from the Summer Street Bridge toward the Harbor and East Boston. From left to right the facilities include 1. Fan Yard with No. 4 House: Stone's Express, Springmeier Shipping Company, Gulf Carloading Company 2. NHRR Inbound and Outbound LCL Freight Houses along Northern Avenue 3. No. 5 Yard 4. Fish Loading Platforms 5. A&P Fish and Produce Warehouse 6. New England Transportation Company 7. No. 7 House - Lifschultz Fast Freight 8. No. 8 House - Pacific and Atlantic Shippers Association, Terminal Freight Handling \Company 9. No. 5 House - Acme Fast Freight, International Forwarding Company 10. No. 6 House - National Forwarding Company.

In the last year of the NHRR, following cars on OB-4 headed to the downtown area: NH 21619 Paper Towels, Green Bay Wis. to Stetson, Boston, ATSF 620329 Wine, ModColony, Cal. to Pappas, Boston, GATX 39200 Alcohol, Muscatine, Iowa to Mr. Boston Distributors, Boston, PC 165699 Cigarettes, Reidsville, NC to American Tobacco, Boston, GN 33182 Mixed Freight, Harlem River to Knickerbocker, Boston, WCLX 2422 Fresh Meat, Cedar Rapids, Iowa to Wilson Com., Boston, WCLX 2123 Fresh Meat Cedar Rapids, Iowa to Wilson Com., Boston, WCLX 2076 Fresh Meat, Albert Lea, Minn. to Wilson Com., Boston, ]R. I. 27822 Flour, Minneapolis, Minn. to Thurman, Boston, TTX 300161, Flat Car with FTZZ, Mdse. Chicago, Ill. to Itofca, Boston c/o B&T and ELZZ 207630 Mdse. Chicago to Itofca, Boston, c/o F. Cole, TTX 301181 Flat Car with RIZZ 509231 Fresh Meat Wichita, Kan. to Cudahy, Boston - Supreme Packing Co. c/o New Market Service and CNWZ 505121, Fresh Meat Galt, Ill to Armour, Boston, - Merchants Beef Co. c/o New Market Service, IC 28323 Mdse. Chicago, Ill to Lifshultz Fast Freight, Boston, UP 113922 Mdse. Chicago, Ill to Lifshultz Fast Freight, Boston. ''
It is from : http://sh1.webring.com/people/bk/king50 ... ston1.html

[130MM]

Maybe it's just me, but I could find no mention of any trackwork at Southampton St. to facilitate a new connection to Track 61 in the linked document. Is there another funding source, and/or plans to look at? While anything can be done, given enough money; connecting the Dorchester directly would require installing diamonds in an elevated curve on the Old Colony. As well as there would have to be other things investigated: there is a substantial elevation difference between the Old Colony, and the freight track at that point. And what the vertical clearance under the Midland Bridge?

I'd really like to see what plans you can link to.

DAW

That's how the tracks used to go...straight off the Dot Branch through a diamond and under the bridge. The diamond was torn out in the mid-90's with the construction of the Pike tunnel and the Haul Road. http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials. ... &year=1978

There aren't any schematics from the state on this stretch of track because all the presentations they've been giving are about the terminal properties themselves. This presentation gives a little bit of history about the area: http://www.ctps.org/bostonmpo/5_meeting ... rridor.pdf. It is in the State Freight and Rail Plan that Framingham-Walpole-Readville-Southie is the preferred port access, not the Old Colony out of Middleboro.

From what the pictures in that presentation look like the bridge may be a little low. How much so I don't know. The track grades crossing through the yard aren't an issue here; elevation hasn't changed since the old diamond went away. Height situation and what, if anything, can be done is what would require further study. But you're not getting anything 19'6" up the Old Colony, Dorchester Branch, or east of Beacon Park so high clearances are moot. Only constraint is if they're restricted at all to undersize from the norm, and I don't know if they were. Line probably would not have survived the whole of the Conrail era if it had crippled heights.

I looked throught the historial aerials, but could see no evidence of any diamonds. And since that time the Dorchester has been realigned to travel to the compass west side of the MBTA S&I building. This puts the Dorchester futher away from the South Boston Cut; making any connection to the Cut even more problematic. The Old Colony is squarely in the way of any connection. It, the OCRR, is also some feet higher than the track in the Cut under the Midland bridge. The Cut track could be raised, but the bridge elevation becomes an issue. I don't know what effect a lowering of the OCRR would have, and the top of the Red Line tunnel may be an issue as well. The diamonds would require either an entire new interlocking, or an expansion of Cabot interlocking. Easily into seven figures.

I have a vague memory of when double stacks to Boston harbor was being investigated that there was a proposal to turn the Midland Bridge into a lift span. This would allow double stacks under the bridge. But as the document shows, the connection to Conley Terminal has been abandoned.

With enough money, any thing can be done. It's a question of does the amount of freight traffic justify the amount of money spent to get it there.