A Historic date, of sorts....

[rcbsd45]

Today is June 1st, 2004. It markes the five year anniversary of the split of CR by CSX and NS. Time flies, doesn't it? Any random thoughts on where the affected Parties will be in five more years? And I'd be interested in hearing some comments/opinions about the split in general as well as the past five years....

[charlie6017]

Hmmmm,
I have mixed emotions of the railroads since the split. I still think the merger should not have been allowed because Conrail was not a struggling company. If it were, I don't think there really would have been any opposition. As far as internal matters, it's hard to say because I'm simply a railfan and not an employee. With the way oil prices are jumping, I wonder what bearing it will have on railroads and transportation in general? All in all, I hope there are no more major mergers. That's all I can think of for now, sorry........I'm tired ~

[roadster]

Certainly a date which will "live in Infamie" in the hearts of Railfans, and former Conrail employees alike. Uncertainty seems to be the only future that presents itself.

[Noel Weaver]

Although I am retired and no longer involved in the day to day affairs, my
contacts and friends tell me a lot of horror stories concerning the lines that
I worked.
I have heard that maintenance on the Mohawk and the S.R. & B. has been
cut, there are loads of slow orders and signal problems etc.
Conrail seemed to do a good job running Amtrak trains between Buffalo
and Albany although delays occasionally occurred. Today, they are more
likely to be late than on time.
Are the shippers (customers) or employees any better off under CSX than
they were with Conrail, I would have to say it is not likely that they are.
I just hope the CSX is not headed the same way that Penn-Central was.
Noel Weaver

[TerryC]

I have oftened dreamed about the day the FRA said the Conrail mearger was unfair so CSXT and Norfolk Southern had to give all of their fomer Conrail units back. What about the Conrail painted but CSXT owned SD70MACs who would get those?

http://trainiaxindex.cjb.net/

Keep asking, keep learning

[LCJ]

I have oftened dreamed about the day the FRA said the Conrail mearger was unfair....

Terry -- the FRA really has very little to say about the "fairness" of rail mergers. Since you're still in learning mode, you should be aware that it's the Surface Transportation Board that handles that stuff these days.

....so CSXT and Norfolk Southern had to give all of their fomer Conrail units back.

This begs the question -- give them back to whom?

[TerryC]

LCJ there is no need to be so blunt! Who would CSXT and Norfolk Southern give thier ex Conrail units to? Conrail of course. It was just a dream though.

http://trainiaxindex.cjb.net/
Keep asking, keep learning

[LCJ]

No offense intended. I understand the dream context.

I worked for Conrail from its inception until just prior to the rendering of the assets between the two companies. Living in the heart of UP territory now, I often see former CR units, still in blue with the original lettering, in consist with UP power. This brings a slight stab in the heart for the times I spent around the CR system.

I take a few TUMs and it goes away, though.

[rocketman]

Five years of CSX terror. Gross mismanagment.

[crazy_nip]

thank god someone finally put conrail out of its misery...

[roadster]

Yeah, Nip, you tell em. Thank god for CSX to come in and run down the highest rate Class 1 of it's time (that's after going public and off the Gov. cash) to become the 5th out of 5 class ones remaining. Conrails misery as you put it has become CSX's shame. And yet the Northeast Divisions continue to be the highest produtive units in CSX. I'd gladly take Conrail's "misery", if it were still possible. In the mean time we'll continue to hope for CN or UP to put us out of CSX's misery and shame.

[LCJ]

I couldn't have said it better myself, roadster.

[Noel Weaver]

There is no doubt in my mind that Conrail was a far better railroad than
CSX currently is. The UPS traffic got handeled even though there was
really no major railroad competetion over much of the Conrail territory,
they still handled it as though there was. TVLA, TV-10 and others really
moved along, good power, good signals and good trains.
CSX has allowed conditions to go downhill and it is truly a shame.
The impending takeover kind of hastened my retirement a little, having
gone from from the New Haven Railroad (bad enough) to Penn-Central
(which was much worse) to early Conrail before Crane (somewhat better)
to Conrail during and after Crane (much better, actually the best it ever
was).
Metro-North fit in there for four year too but that showed me just how
waste there really is in government operations, expect that it has gotten
worse since I left there in 1987.
Conrail between 1987 and 1997 was a much better although somewhat
slimmed down, operation than in its earlier years. Was it perfect, of
course not, but everyone I have talked with agrees that it was better
under Conrail and they were better off then than today.
Noel Weaver

[crazy_nip]

if conrail was such a great railroad they would have moved to taken over csx or ns...

not the other way around

they may have moved their van trains faster than CSX, but they also had multiple routes to chose from, CSX and NS dont for the most part

also, their fast handling of intermodal cost them when it came to delays on unit trains, putting the horse befor the cart so to speak, and thier bottom line proved this. Not to mention the so called over-maintaining of their ROW

they put themselves in a position to be bought, I think its a shame they paid so much for conrail however

But alas, you conrail fans can sulk forever just like the SP fans out west and pine for a RR that couldnt fend off its inevitable demise

[Conrail4014]

I don't think it was entirely an issue of CR putting itself in a position to be acquired as it was the company's long-term business plan was keyed around shrinking. Remember that Conrail hit its stride as it downgraded or pulled up trackage.

Now, given some of what has happend since then, I don't think it would have been too audacious for CR to have proposed taking over CSX, just as it did the SSW, and it might have been more successful given that it would not have taken place inside a merger that was keyed around Espee's preservation (albeit in Armour Yellow). Remember that the D&RGW did acquire the larger SP, even though that was backed by much of Phil Anschutz' money.


By the way, to rcbSD45, I wonder if you remember me--I used to railfan a ton over at CP-5, always wore a Mets hat and talked incessantly about my favorite E-units, which I seem to remember you were not a fan of on account of visibility.

Thanks for the chance to opine,