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  • Sending Conductors to Engineer school

  • Discussion of the operations of CSX Transportation, from 1980 to the present. Official site can be found here: CSXT.COM.
Discussion of the operations of CSX Transportation, from 1980 to the present. Official site can be found here: CSXT.COM.

Moderator: MBTA F40PH-2C 1050

 #168151  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
Make sure you got your job insurance paid up. This is what it's for. Believe it! :wink:

 #169367  by moosespider
 
man am i glad i got out of boston. i worked beacon park, and framingham back in '97. i think i remember that "blinky" guy. he may have hired out with me. maybe not.... he didn't drive one of those white vans before he came to conrail did he? :P sounds dangerous.... i tell ya it's no different up here in the pine tree state.... they are just looking for warm bodies..... scary stuff :(

 #169401  by CSX Engineer 98
 
He worked here years ago and sold out his contract...Then rehired and thought he was entitled to his seniority back..LOL he threatened everybody with a lawyor and instead he got Lawlor UTU rep. and management put him in his place.... :P Now hear he is in time out for another one of his mishaps..He will kill someone and then blam it on the Dead guy..... :(

Know of 2 guys that drove for D&T one is a Comrade in arms with me as an Engineer and the other is long gone...Sad he was a pain but knew all the pickup spots along the whole B&A...But never made the Cut for ConRail or CSX as a trainman...Probably Blackballed.... :wink:

Philadelphia was the Best Ground school that Conrail/CSX spent its money on when they paid for EVERYTHING....

Who in their right mind would pay for a career and not be sure to get a job..We got some guys out here paid twice....... :(
Surprised they dont make you pay to go to Choo Choo U Cumberland was a let down.
Instructors were asking Me and cuople of other guys in the area if the Cab Signal Rules course we took sounded right....And on top of that Made us also learn the Seaboard Signals and Rules..That We dont even use them on the B&A or any place close to North of the Mason Dixon line..LOL

 #170605  by JBlaisdell
 
Tonight I worked with a conductor with less than 2 years seniority. He wasn't qualified over all the railroad we were going so they gave him a pilot for that area that was hired NINE months ago. This is what we have to put up with. Blind leading the blind. And I have to babysit both of them making sure they don't make any mistakes plus worry about the job I have to do.
I'm gonna think twice about being trackside if THIS is how trains are getting crewed!

 #180108  by blippo
 
I heard yesterday again that rumor about the FRA requiring a employee be a conductor for 5 years before sending them to engineers school. To start January 1st.

 #181609  by slchub
 
I asked the FRA about this earlier this year to quash this rumor. When they responded, I posted the response under General Discussion: Employment, So, You want to work for the railroad!
Here is what the FRA has to say about the 5 year waiting period before being promoted to hogger:

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: No 5 year wait

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally got an e-mail from the FRA about the 5 year wait before promoting to hogger. Quash that rumor! Here is the text of the e-mail:

Your email to Mr. Kulm was forwarded to me for a response. I
apologize for the delay, but I have been out of the office for two weeks. I
manage the locomotive engineer certification regulation for FRA. I am
also a locomotive engineer of 30+ years. I will be happy to answer your
question.

You asked if FRA was contemplating a 5 year waiting period before a
conductor could enter training to become an engineer. The answer is "no."
FRA currently has no plans to regulate conductor training. However,
since conductor-trainees are now trained to operate remote control
locomotives, FRA does regulate that aspect of conductor training under the
engineer certification regulation. If you have any more questions please
contact me.

John L. Conklin 3rd
Manager - Locomotive Engineer Certification
Federal Railroad Administration
Office of Safety
1120 Vermont Avenue, NW
Sixth Floor, Room-6051
Washington, DC 20005


Hope this helps and clarifies things.

 #191944  by frank502
 
Who in their right mind would pay for a career and not be sure to get a job..
People do it all the time when they attend college or trade school.

 #193212  by conrail_engineer
 
CSX Conductor wrote:Hate to ruin your day CSX Engineer98, but I heard that they called "giddie-up" / "you got a flashing clear" man to the school along with our female conductor out of Beacon Park for the class in May, but ended up not sending either of them.

Unfortunately we both know, as well as everybody who knows that fool, that he will never get reprimanded due to the fact that the company is afraid that he will "pull the race card". :(

Sadly we all know how dangerous this particular guy is, especially you from first hand experience. :( but we just have to be extra careful around him. Last good one I heard was he told his engineer that they had an Approach on track #2 @CP-43 to shove off in the yard, engineer looked back and saw track #2 all red & track #1 had an Approach for a westbound MBTA Commuter Train. :-( Good thing the engineer didn't move. :wink:
Every terminal has a few of those...sometimes more than a few.

The problem is systemic...institutional. CSX doesn't pay to train these men; which means they don't represent a capital investment. Which means they're not taking risk (in their view) in hiring personnel who are unfit for the job.

Somehow, these brainiacs in Jax haven't figured out that morons like that cause expensive train accidents; and not every problem can be prevented with more "training" (paperwork and BS radio transmissions) and accusations of crew misconduct.

The company for whatever reason is hypersensitive on the issue of race. In one of the terminals I've worked out of, there's a conductor, minority group, who's got a track record of uncooperation and did time in prison for a violent crime. The loser got in my face, end of a run while yarding a train...

...I walked away and dumped it onto the yardmaster...

...and I was out of service for three weeks while they tried to figure a way to fire ME withOUT firing HIM. (They couldn't; they brought us both back).

They will not fire a woman or minority. They seldom fire a new guy who clearly cannot understand railroad work. And they keep taking noobies who are adequete conductors but not suitable as engineers, and cranking them through Choo-Choo College.

The mentality seems to be that the job is so simple, any monkey can do it. That's an arrogance borne of never having worked our jobs on the ground; of coming off the street into management positions on the railroad; and it's the elitism of the college set which looks down at those of us with dirt under our fingernails.

It will be the Acheillies' Heel of CSX's operatons.

 #193827  by CSX Conductor
 
conrail_engineer wrote:And they keep taking noobies who are adequete conductors but not suitable as engineers, and cranking them through Choo-Choo College.

The mentality seems to be that the job is so simple, any monkey can do it. That's an arrogance borne of never having worked our jobs on the ground; of coming off the street into management positions on the railroad; and it's the elitism of the college set which looks down at those of us with dirt under our fingernails.
They sometimes send people who don't have a clue to the engineer program hoping the fools won't pass and then they can be terminated, as stated in writing when hired. :(

 #193913  by DJ
 
I think it makes sense, in this point in time, to send conductors to engineer school. Let me explain.

First thing, two man crews. I know in the old days they used to hire firemen who would train with the engineer for years before becoming one, and not even spend ANY time on the ground. Same for the conductor and his flagmen and brakemen, but they were on the ground, but didn't become engineers. With two man crews, doesn't it make more sense to promote someone that has a working knowledge of the railroad than to hire someone off the street?

Second, the new-hire conductor training time is way to short, which will bring me to my third point.

There is alot to learn as a new hire on the RR. The only thing is that now with two-man crews we only have WEEKS to learn before we are considered qualified conductors, and are working out there by ourselves. All the old conductors I've worked with said they worked as brakemen for YEARS before becoming qualified. This is big, but there is nothing that can be done about that. I know that the old heads don't take this into account; to them a monkey could do this job and that's how they treat you as a new hire.

Yes, I know some people are just total screw-ups and will never get it. I'll hit this point soon.

Third point is the time your called for engineer school. You guys are making it sound like pepole are called within weeks of becoming qualified conductors. I can't speak for the whole of CSX, but in my area we are talking years of being a conductor before you are called. I was worried about this so I asked. I want to be the best conductor I can be before even thinking about this engineer thing. I was also told that I could expect to do both for awhile because at first I won't even be able to hold the engineers extra board. Remember we (new hires) are at the bottom of the roster, so lots of names above ours.

Fourth. CSX does pay the new hires OJT. For me, thats 18 weeks paid OJT at the rate agreed upon by the union. It is true that while you are in the conductor school you are not paid. That's five weeks and you have to pay for the school, but if you get in the school, you are going to be hired by CSX. It's just up to you to jump thru all the hoops.

Last thing is who gets hired/fired. All of us new hires have been told it's hard to get fired from CSX. I doubt race has anything to do with the guy you are talking about. I've actually heard that they don't want him to go to engineer school because they know he's a screw up, and I'm a new guy!

The female conductor has not been sent because she has less time on the RR than that guy, so they can't send her before him. I heard she's good.

Bottom line is things have changed. RR's did not hire for years, short training time, five man crews are long gone ect. The RR itself has changed.

Who better to be promoted to engineer NOW than the guy who now spends the most time with him and knows the layout of the yards and has been on the ground?

 #193988  by CSX Conductor
 
DJ wrote:I know in the old days they used to hire firemen who would train with the engineer for years before becoming one, and not even spend ANY time on the ground. Same for the conductor and his flagmen and brakemen, but they were on the ground, but didn't become engineers. With two man crews, doesn't it make more sense to promote someone that has a working knowledge of the railroad than to hire someone off the street?
That's what we're getting at!!! Many guys are sent to engineer school before they even get any experience on the ground, which is a problem.

 #209899  by BigMike
 
You guys complain about being over worked then you complain about the help being to NEW, make up your minds! Also if the railroads and union would have started this retirment hiring a while back you wouldnt be in such bad shape.

 #210246  by CSX Conductor
 
Mike you are correct that there was way too big of a gap in the hiring process, but you haven't seen some of the people they are hiring. It is not safe the way they just give these guys x-amount of "training" and then let them out on their own.

 #212124  by BigMike
 
Yea i do agree with you there, it seems like the hiring of employees is last on anyones minds, but they have to realize these guys will be operating those Engines one day.

 #212127  by jg greenwood
 
BigMike wrote:Yea i do agree with you there, it seems like the hiring of employees is last on anyones minds, but they have to realize these guys will be driving those Engines one day.
Surely you're not suggesting the carriers exercise some foresight. That makes far too much sense, not gonna happen!