Request Information on Georgia Subdivision Augusta-Atlanta

[MattW]

Hello, I've lived along CSX's Georgia subdivision all my life and I was wondering if someone could provide some more info on current operations. I've only recently gotten serious about railfanning the sub including a rather lengthy endeavor today. I know its history pretty well, so mostly I'm curious about the line's current status and future. I've read that it's not exactly a main route anymore, someone compared it to Norfolk Southern's Atlanta-Griffin line which last I checked was a 25mph railroad used only for a handful of local businesses and reroutes. The Georgia subdivision last I was able to read was a 50mph railroad (my pacing of trains seems to back this) and a decent route between Atlanta and Savannah. There's definitely still a good bit of local traffic, the local out of Lithonia seems to be in Conyers 5-6 days a week and sometimes 7 days and I'm always hearing dispatch talking to what could only be local jobs around Social Circle. Today, when the local was leaving Lithonia for Conyers, I heard the dispatcher mention something about a reroute, anyone know what this was about? There have seemed to be a slightly higher than normal of through trains (mostly Intermodal) recently than what I've seen in a good many years. I'm also curious if DTC is still used as I hear most track authority being assigned milepost to milepost, I thought the point of DTC was the railroad was pre-divided so granting authority was easier?

I'd also like to know about the future of this line. With the deepening of the port of Savannah, will this line become more important? Is PTC going to be implemented on this line? I know maybe in the mid-nineties, they removed by my guess half of the old Georgia Railroad signals (doubling block length?) and all the remains of the linside poles and lines.

Thanks in advance for any information!

[mmi16]

I have not worked on the Atlanta Division for several years, when I did the Georgia Sub was a part of my territory.

At that time the Georgia sub hosted Savannah to Memphis intermodal each way, the Augusta to Atlanta main line locals Q460 & Q461. Road Switchers headquartered at Lithonia, Social Circle and Camak perform the industrial switching along the subdivision. Coal Trains from both Atlanta and Augusta operate to Plant Harllee Branch outside Milledgeville.

The Georgia Sub is used as a safety valve for traffic moving from Jacksonville to Atlanta when the Fitzgerald Sub between Waycross and Manchester becomes clogged for whatever the reason.

CSX stopped using DTC several years ago, switching to TWC - Track Warrant Control. TWC permits the Train Dispatcher to convey authority from control point to control point, from absolute signal to absolute signal or from Milepost to Milepost. There are no dedicated blocks used in TWC. The Georgia Sub signal system has been upgraded to permit trains to operate behind each other on signal indications - that was not always the case.

In addition to it's local business, both from on line industries and from the connecting short lines, and it's use as a safety valve for problems on the main Waycross-Atlanta route I suspect the Georgia Sub will continue to have a long life with CSX.

[MattW]

I apologize for the lateness of my response. Thank you for the information mmi16! I'm glad to hear it's future is at least stable.

[MattW]

I have one more question that I thought about today when chasing a local. Does the Georgia Sub use APB or standard ABS signaling? The reason I ask is because it seems when a train is heading southbound, the signals governing northbound movements are already red long before the train should be in the block they govern. That would make sense with APB where the whole thing "trickles down" between passing sidings. I've also noticed that the opposing signals don't immediately come back up to clear once the train passes. For instance, the local job passes the signals going southbound, the northbound signal of course shows red, and then the southbound signal shows red, but I would normally expect the northbound to come back up to clear once the entire train is physically away from the signal, instead it stays red until the train is ready to head back northbound. I guess this is actually a second question because it doesn't make sense to me even under APB.
Thanks for any information!

[charlie6017]

Hi Matt,

Are the signals protecting an interlocking of some kind? If so, then those are considered "home signals" and
those are normally illuminated constantly. If the signals are automatic signals (normally just one signal head) then
it could be APB. Automatic signals usually have number boards underneath the signal heads.

Charlie

[mmi16]

There are no controlled interlockings on the Georgia Sub. I don't know the specific technical reasons but Georgia Sub signals are not trusted for Absolute Permissive Block operation - TWC block separation is maintained between following trains, rather than permitting following trains to be governed by signal indication, as is permitted on other territories that have signals that permit APB operation, such as CSX's A&WP Sub between Montgomery and Eastpoint, GA (much of the territory on this sub has been upgraded to CTC in recent years).

[MattW]

So I'm reviving this topic instead of starting a whole new one. Does anyone know the current state of this subdivision? From rumors elsewhere, it seems the entire line from Atlanta to Augusta has been restricted to 25mph, and I know that the old Q197/198 Intermodal pair has been re-routed along the A&WP sub via La Grange. Is all this permanent? What are the current trains on this sub? The only ones I know about are the A715 (Atlanta-Social Circle turn?) A752 (Lithonia/Conyers switcher in place of A758) and A722 (Covington/Social Circle?). What about 460/461?

Thanks!

[mmi16]

Last I looked Q460 & Q461 are still operating on an every other day schedule. Crew takes Q460 to Atlanta one day and returns with Q461 the next.

[Champlain Division]

According to the GA-WPR Yahoo Group and Facebook, " CSX Train #Q461/460 has been abolished. All traffic will go to Waycross, GA for classification." Looks like the EHH Ax has already started falling. Some are saying this is the death nell for the Georgia Road Sub. One can only hope some of the big regionals are watching closely and eyeing the GARR/C&WC/Clinchfield combination carefully.

Rick Shivik
Conyers, GA

[MattW]

That's for the info, what is GA-WPR?

[Champlain Division]

GA-WPR = Georgia - West Point Route

[mmi16]

According to the GA-WPR Yahoo Group and Facebook, " CSX Train #Q461/460 has been abolished. All traffic will go to Waycross, GA for classification." Looks like the EHH Ax has already started falling. Some are saying this is the death nell for the Georgia Road Sub. One can only hope some of the big regionals are watching closely and eyeing the GARR/C&WC/Clinchfield combination carefully.

Rick Shivik
Conyers, GA

Considering Road Switchers headquartered at Lithonia, Social Circle and Camak perform the industrial switching along the subdivision how are they getting and dispatching their customers cars to Waycross. The functions of Q460/Q461 were to do this set off and pick up so that the traffic could get switched to main line trains to destination. Have the customers and Short Line operators that interchange with CSX on the Georgia Sub been abandoned?

[MattW]

GA-WPR = Georgia - West Point Route

Thanks, I may check the group out!

According to the GA-WPR Yahoo Group and Facebook, " CSX Train #Q461/460 has been abolished. All traffic will go to Waycross, GA for classification." Looks like the EHH Ax has already started falling. Some are saying this is the death nell for the Georgia Road Sub. One can only hope some of the big regionals are watching closely and eyeing the GARR/C&WC/Clinchfield combination carefully.

Rick Shivik
Conyers, GA

Considering Road Switchers headquartered at Lithonia, Social Circle and Camak perform the industrial switching along the subdivision how are they getting and dispatching their customers cars to Waycross. The functions of Q460/Q461 were to do this set off and pick up so that the traffic could get switched to main line trains to destination. Have the customers and Short Line operators that interchange with CSX on the Georgia Sub been abandoned?

From what I know at least here on the northern end of the line, Q460/461 were recently made to run nonstop Atlanta-Augusta. In their place/addition to them, we got A760/761 which setout and picked up from the major cities (Lithonia, Covington, Social Circle, etc.). But over this past year, it appears that there's an A715 Atlanta-Social Circle turn, and an A712 Atlanta-Lithonia (Conyers/Covington?) turn. Suffice to say, I miss the recent good days of the Georgia road when we had the two Intermodals, Lithonia had two switch jobs, 460/461 and other random through trains. As to your question more directly, I imagine that A712/715 will still operate, and will simply bring the cars to Tilford as a block for Waycross or Nashville, maybe Birmingham, to be picked up by one of the trains that will now work Tilford.

[Champlain Division]

Thanks mmi16,

I was wondering the same things.....

Thanks MattW,

Good to know. That's one detail that didn't come forth in discussions on the Yahoo Group. I didn't know about A761/760 which explains why I was seeing more long freights through Conyers than I expected assuming just one in each direction. It really didn't make sense to me to run a single daily non-stop freight between Atlanta and Augusta that didn't set out or pick up from on-line customers. Now I know that it's purpose was as a forwarding train for traffic to and from Augusta.

In light of the Tilford Hump's closure, classification in Atlanta being drastically curtailed and making Waycross' Rice Yard THE Major classification point for the Deep Southeast, it makes sense that a forwarding/transfer/shuttle train on the GA Road would no longer be needed. I assume one detail you left out about A761/760 is that it runs the length of the CSX Georgia Road Subdivision picking up and setting out from all trailing point on-line customers and local yards and will be retained as such for the foreseeable future. I'm further assuming that all the traffic that Q460/461 would have taken to and from Augusta will now be handled by Atlanta - Waycross and Augusta - Waycross trains with cars pre-blocked for GA Sub trailing point customers depending on direction of it's current Super-Local/Peddler Freight.

Please set me straight on any incorrect assumptions so far as I intend to post the information you've given me on the GA-WPR Yahoo Group.

[MattW]

So I was somewhat off. This info comes courtesy of the CSX Atlanta Area Facebook group.
A760/761 became Q460/461 (local to nonstop) which was abolished this week along with Tilford.
A712 was also abolished this week.

So at a guess, A715 will still go to Tilford, but the cars will be taken in blocks to either Waycross or Nashville, though Birmingham is closer for some things.