E40 (Former Pennsy E40, Former NH EP5 "Jet"

[Tyee]

Greetings!
I author a rail blog http://www.oil-electric.com and am writing an article on the
NH EP5 mercury arc rectifiers. Ten were built, 10 passed through to Penn Central,
but the trail goes cold there. How many actually ran under CONRAIL? And
what was their final fate. Photos with CONRAIL scheme would be helpful
as well. All assistance appreciated. Regards, Robert (McDonald)
in Port Townsend.

[lvrr325]

Per Scott Hartley's Conrail Volume 1, two that remained in 1976 became Conrail 4973 and 4977. Conrail eliminated all electric freight operations in 1981, and if these made it that far (unlikely) they were cut up soon after. There's a picture of 4973 and the caption notes they were used in secondary freight service.

They never belonged to the "Pennsy" as the Pennsylvania Railroad became a part of Penn Central in 1968 and the New Haven was merged in mid-1969.

[Tyee]

"Pennsy" slip of the tongue - I ment PC. So apparently of the 10 NH units, only the NH 373 (CR 4973) and NH 377 (CR 4977) made it to CONRAIL. Am I now correct? Thank you very much for the assistance. Robert (McDonald) in Port Townsend. www.oil-electric.com

[chuchubob]

This is the only PC EP5 photo that I have.

[shlustig]

IIRC, c. early 1970's we had jets assigned to the following outbound (NH) commuter trains from GCT, all of which were 11 to 14 cars: #'s 1356, 1360, 1362, 1366, and 1370. No spares were available, so if a jet was shopped, a pair of FL-9's had to be used. The FL-9's could make the schedule on #'s 1360 and 1370, but not on the others.

After the Park Ave. Tunnel jet fire and the other jet burning at Mott Haven, they were barred from the Metropolitan Region and went to former PRR territory for freight service. The ones that had been used for parts at NH were canibalized and scrapped.

[Tyee]

Gentlemen!
I appreciate your sharing of information on the EP5. I am beginning to write the blog article, which will take about a week. I like to let my writings sit and cook for a day or two, then re-edit. I am persnickety about accuracy. And having run into so much bogus information on the Ignitron Rectifier, I am sure you will appreciate my efforts. It was an interesting technology. If any of you can
remember information pertaining to the TELEPHONE LINE INTERFERENCE caused by the IR, that is another area I'm having trouble finding info on.

Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. If anyone does NOT want his name to appear in my blog, let me know.

Regards,
Robert (McDonald) in Port Townsend
http://www.oil-electric.com

[Tadman]

In PC paint, I've only seen Jets operating west of Philly on freight pusher service. Also, one pantograph was taken off, maybe for use as spare parts? I hear in today's dollars pans can cost $50k so probably really expensive to waste on the "most likely to be scrapped" locomotive in the PC yearbook.

[JC1076]

Here are some photos of CR 4973 operating on the Amboy Secondary (NJ) in May 1976:

http://trainspot.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... ?id=830663

http://trainspot.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... id=1328686

[Zeke]

I remember them coming around the Penn side of the PC around1973-74. There was a road local that ran the NEC between Waverly yard Newark, New Jersey and Morrisville, Pennsylvania called N-13/N-12. Those photos of the "Jet " on the Amboy secondary was train A-2/A-1 an overnight local that ran between Morrisville and Browns yard in Old bridge, New Jersey. Both assignments were big money overtime slow moving trains that the company felt was a fit for the jets in their waning years.I ran them as a hostler on the Meadows motor pit but never out on the road. The engineers liked them as they had good heat in the winter and were decent pullers. They still had the New Haven cab signal chime whistles hooked up to the Pennsy posisiton light cab signal system that had quite a melodic sound. They still retained the Hancock air whistles too.The shop did a nice job painting them but I think Morrisvile handled the repairs instead of Wilmington or Enola electric shop. I never saw one in Main Line helper service out of ZOO tower as that was the usual domain of E-44's and SD-45's. Bob's photo proves again if something is theoretically possible on a railroad you can bet it happened at least once.

[green_elite_cab]

Greetings!
I author a rail blog http://www.oil-electric.com and am writing an article on the
NH EP5 mercury arc rectifiers. Ten were built, 10 passed through to Penn Central,
but the trail goes cold there. How many actually ran under CONRAIL? And
what was their final fate. Photos with CONRAIL scheme would be helpful
as well..

I model Conrail electric operations, and the EP5s are one of my favorites (if short lived). As the thread has said, only two EP5s survived into conrail, 4973 and 4977. They were NEVER repainted, and kept all their Penn Central markings all the way to the scrapper.

Both were retired within a 9 months of conrail. The 4973 was retired in October 1976, followed by 4977 in January, 1977. They were all scrapped in 1979 by Naprano in Newark NJ, i think.

I have photographs of the units on the road, but mostly the "Harrisburg" engine, 4977 (it was apparently assigned to Harrisburg, hence the label under its roadnumber). I have atleast one photo of 4977 behind two GG1s at Metuchen, NJ. It Appears that these units really did see service before retirement, pulling freights between Harrisburg and northern New Jersey, as well as 4973, which was running on the old PRR Jamesburg branch (the same line under the PRR catenary poles at Exit 8A on the NJ turnpike).


There were several plans for the E40 that never passed on. Penn Central had plans to rebuild the E40s into TRUE freight units. As they stood, the E40s were very much the same motors they were, except without a pantograph or DC power equipment. However, the majority of the stored units were so damaged by fire and Penn Central didn't have the money, so the rebuild never happened.

The E40s were almost saved a second time, after Conrail retired the existing E40s. the LIRR thought about purchasing a pair to rescue trains trapped in tunnels along it's route, but the EP5's tendency to overheat (in one case, 4971 created a hazardous fire) soured them to the idea. Though the LIRR bid on the units, the scrapping company had the highest bid, and so they were all cut up.

[green_elite_cab]

In PC paint, I've only seen Jets operating west of Philly on freight pusher service. Also, one pantograph was taken off, maybe for use as spare parts? I hear in today's dollars pans can cost $50k so probably really expensive to waste on the "most likely to be scrapped" locomotive in the PC yearbook.

That may have been the case, but i think it was deemed that two pantographs were not necessary for freight operations (where just about any locomotive meant to carry passengers has two. the PRR also had a two pantograph policy). It cost money to have to maintain more than one pantograph, and the extra pantograph was probably saved as replacements for the E40s and E33s, which still used them.

I know in the cash strapped days of the New Haven, they would actually remove the pantographs from an E33 and use bus wires to connect the unit to an E33 with a pantograph. While the use of bus wires on the E33s (using only on pantograph for a pair) was common, it was interesting to see the lead E33 without any power collection at all.

[Noel Weaver]

Not all of the jets were repainted black (PC that is), at least 4 of them were moved from New Haven to Guilford, Connecticut where they got cut up. These 4 crapped out on the New Haven before Penn Central took us over and never ran under PC. The others made their final trips during the Penn Central period in passenger service. One particularly bad day the 4971 (I think this was the one) caught fire in the Park Avenue Tunnel and cuased a major tie up in the evening rush which resulted in the remaining two or three being barred from Grand Central Terminal and passenger service. The 4973 and 4977 were still able to run and thus were taken to New Jersey where they were very short of freight power. I don't know if they were ever re-geared for freight operation but I rather doubt it, after all the New Haven also ran them in freight service from time to time prior to the Penn Central takeover. I had a job out of Harlem River with them and they did a reasonably decent job on HB-8 to New Haven where they came off for diesel power. HB-8 was an overnight trailer train from Harlem River to Boston 5 nights a week.
Noel Weaver

[shlustig]

That Park Ave. Tunnel fire was a hell of a mess. Train was stopped between 72nd and 86th Sts. IIRC, Frank Fratto Sr. was the Engr. Train was one of the big NH expresses, maybe 1360 or 1362.

Bob Collins Term. Supt., Dennis Healy Sr. TM, Joe Gunther RFE, Pete Hansen RFE, Roger Bagley and Dick Rowe TM were on duty that evening. Ed Whitney, Stan Rydzeski, and Fred Poggi were the M/E supervisors.
We were fortunate that there were no serious casualties.

There was another jet fire around the same time when one burned inbound at MO account debris.

[green_elite_cab]

Not all of the jets were repainted black (PC that is), at least 4 of them were moved from New Haven to Guilford, Connecticut where they got cut up. These 4 crapped out on the New Haven before Penn Central took us over and never ran under PC.

True, I was referring to the time when Conrail came in.

The others made their final trips during the Penn Central period in passenger service. One particularly bad day the 4971 (I think this was the one) caught fire in the Park Avenue Tunnel and cuased a major tie up in the evening rush which resulted in the remaining two or three being barred from Grand Central Terminal and passenger service.

This was a big mess because the railroad ignored protocols for that situation. While fires on EP5s weren't uncommon, this one got out of hand, and the engine had been burning for a while when a pedestrian saw smoke coming out of a tunnel grate and used a call box. Even so, when the fire department called the railroad to ask if something was up, it turned out the railroad had known about the fire for over an hour and 15 minutes, and had not called it in.

By this time, the fire was much worse than a simple electrical fire (if you could call it that). It had grown to the point where it required 6 hours just to get the fire down enough to pull the burning 4971 out of the tunnel, and more time to finish it off.

i'm surprised that there hadn't been some major effort to rix this fire problem. the 4971 was the eighth EP5 to shut down, and most of those 8 in storage (or scrapped) were because of fires in the engine.

What was it about them that lead to the over heating?

The 4973 and 4977 were still able to run and thus were taken to New Jersey where they were very short of freight power. I don't know if they were ever re-geared for freight operation but I rather doubt it, after all the New Haven also ran them in freight service from time to time prior to the Penn Central takeover. I had a job out of Harlem River with them and they did a reasonably decent job on HB-8 to New Haven where they came off for diesel power. HB-8 was an overnight trailer train from Harlem River to Boston 5 nights a week.
Noel Weaver

There were plans to do this, but they were never realized. All they did was remove unnecessary equipment.

[RDGTRANSMUSEUM]

i have a few shots that i took in harrisburg 1974-75 time frame