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  • Red marker lights locomotives

  • Discussion related to the operations and equipment of Consolidated Rail Corp. (Conrail) from 1976 to its present operations as Conrail Shared Assets. Official web site can be found here: CONRAIL.COM.
Discussion related to the operations and equipment of Consolidated Rail Corp. (Conrail) from 1976 to its present operations as Conrail Shared Assets. Official web site can be found here: CONRAIL.COM.

Moderators: TAMR213, keeper1616

 #54052  by metman499
 
It was done for service on the Northeast Corridor. They served the same purpose as the marker lights on the ends of passenger cars, to mark the end of the train. This way a light engine move would have some rear visual identification.
 #54303  by jmp883
 
I'd go beyond the NE Corridor reason. If I'm not mistaken from my training as a train dispatcher, markers were a rule from the early days of railroading. There are various colors of markers for different reasons, but red markers indicate that a passing train was complete. This was important information for track maintenance crews in the days before radio. Once they saw the red markers they knew the train was complete and would be able to go back to work until they heard or saw the next train approaching. If they saw no marker they would have to stay clear until the markers did pass them. 1st and 2nd generation diesels had marker lamps built-in. Since most 3rd generation diesels, as well as shopped older units, don't carry markers anymore the rules have changed to allow a light engine move to use the headlight on the rear of the trailing unit as the marker. If you look at photos of cabooses you will see that they had holders on both ends of the car to carry oil or electric marker lamps. When the caboose became history the flashing rear-end device (FRED) took the place of the marker lamp.

Passenger and commuter coaches carry either built-in electric markers or have the marker lamp holders.

Hope this helps, and of course, if anyone else can clarify or correct this information it will be greatly appreciated.

Joe P :-D
Long Live The EL
www.geocities.com/jmpwpd29

 #54402  by SRS125
 
Clear Marker-->Extra train.
Red Marker--> Complete train or last section of the train(s) befor it.
Green Marker--> First Section, 2ed section and so on.

Rule applied to flags during the day hung on the sides of the cab as well.
Red, Green, and White.

Blue Flags and Blue Lites were MOW Safty warnings. The rule is that the guy who puts it up is the only one who can take it down!

etc

 #54486  by Noel Weaver
 
On Conrail locomotives, only the red marker lights were used. No
locomotives ordered new for Conrail had anything except red lens in the
marker lights.
Older locomotives either had separate lights for red, white and green or
had moveable colored filters for the markers.
It has been a long time since there have been provisions for sections on
any part of Conrail, in fact it dates back to the former New Haven Railroad
days for the end of sections.
There has been no provision for the use of white lights (or flags for that
matter either) on extra trains in former Conrail territory for some time
either. I can't seem to recall just when this provision was done away
with.
Noel Weaver

 #54528  by SRS125
 
As a side note I recall seeing a Conrail GP38 in Watertown back in October of 2000 with a Green Marker Lite on the short hood it was funny becuse the Lite on the left was red and the lite on the right was green.

Any Ways moveing on I recall CN and CP Rail still useing marker lites. I think they use Red and White Markers. They stoped useing Green lites a few years back. The green markers are still on the units but the bulbs have been removed.
Last edited by SRS125 on Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 #54529  by CRail
 
sure it wasnt a u-BOAT? hehe, i know... it was bad, im sorry - just had to say it. :P
 #54532  by LCJ
 
I believe there are two different items being discussed here.

When I started with PC in the late '60s, locomotives were equipped with number lights and class lights. Number lights did as you would think -- light up the number boards on the unit in question. Class lights, on the other hand, were designed to show what class (hence the name) the train powered by the locomotive was running under -- according to which color was displayed (white, green, or red). During daylight hours, these lights could be supplanted by flags of the same color.

Fast forward to the late '70s. Class lights, per se, are obsolete -- at least on Conrail territories -- since all trains are now "extra" trains and operate on signal indication or track occupancy authority. Conrail began to order locomotives with red-only lights in place of the original, and no longer needed, class lights. These new lights were called "marker" lights -- because they met the requirements of a highly-visible "marker" which was required by Federal law on the rear of every train (passenger or freight).

This meant that a locomotive thus equipped could be placed at the rear of a train, or set of locomotive units, with these lights turned on and meet the regulatory requirements with no other lights illuminated. Prior to this, locomotives on the rear of a train needed to have a headlight set on "dim."
Last edited by LCJ on Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #54545  by Noel Weaver
 
I note the entry from Watertown that states "GP-38", the GP-38's are old
Penn Central engines and had the different filters for the lens. Some of
the earliests GP-38-2's may also have had this setup.
The later GP-38-2's and everything since has not.
Green and white marker lights were used in Canada much later than in
NORAC territory. I can't find any evidence that such lights are still in
general use in Canada at the present time.
Noel Weaver

 #54764  by SRS125
 
CN and CP may have droped Marker lites with in the past year althow It may vary by province now. A few friends in British Columbia seaid something about BC requireing Markers on all locos reguardless of there make and model weather they use them or not who knows.
 #55010  by n01jd1
 
All Conrail locomotives purchased new by Conrail were delivered with the green and white lenses in the marker lights until the very last order of GP40-2's. These were the GP40-2's delivered with the "bug eye" marker lights and were the first locomotives delivered to Conrail with the red only lenses. All Conrail locomotives delivered after those GP40-2s had the red only lenses.



Noel Weaver wrote:On Conrail locomotives, only the red marker lights were used. No
locomotives ordered new for Conrail had anything except red lens in the
marker lights.
Older locomotives either had separate lights for red, white and green or
had moveable colored filters for the markers.
It has been a long time since there have been provisions for sections on
any part of Conrail, in fact it dates back to the former New Haven Railroad
days for the end of sections.
There has been no provision for the use of white lights (or flags for that
matter either) on extra trains in former Conrail territory for some time
either. I can't seem to recall just when this provision was done away
with.
Noel Weaver

 #55577  by SRS125
 
What outher older Conrail locomotives that made the CSX-NS fleet had colored filters or marker lites??
 #62024  by ChiefTroll
 
As we pass farther in years from the classic method of train operation, where trains were superior to other trains by right, class or direction, we tend to lose sight of the finer points of terminology which were a matter of life or death to railroaders of forty or more years ago.

Classification lamps (and flags) were displayed at the front of a train, or on the smokebox front of the lead (or only) steam locomotive regardless of the way the locomotive faced. White flags (and lamps by night) indicated an extra train, and green flags (and lamps by night) indicated that the train was carrying signals for a following section. Those were not markers - they were termed signals, and the lamps that were used in their display were classification lamps. In some cases, signals were displayed at the rear of a train, but only in the instance were the locomotive was at the rear of the train, pushing, and running in reverse. Any train displaying signals, either as an extra train or for following sections, displayed them only at one location in the train. They were only WHITE or GREEN, and NEVER BOTH on the same train.

Markers, on the other hand, were only displayed at the rear of the train. They indicated that the entire train was present at or had passed a given point. Markers commonly, but not always, displayed red lights and/or red flags to the rear. This was vital, especially in the days before automatic air brakes, so that an opposing train would know that the train they were to meet had actually arrived in one piece, and there was not a severed rear end out there waiting for a collision. It also applied where a train was switching at a station - part of his train might be out past the station, and the opposing train had not complied fully with a meet until the markers had been seen.

Many railroads, notably the New York Central before 1956, had several different ways of displaying markers. On the high speed tracks of a four-track line, trains running with the current of traffic displayed red to the rear and yellow to the front and sides (the marker lamps extended out from the side of the caboose or rear passenger car). Trains on the slow speed (freight) tracks added a red lantern on the rear platform. Trains running agains the current of traffic displayed yellow to the rear on the side of the high speed track. Trains in the clear on a siding displayed yellow to the front, sides and rear.

The D&H used essentially the same scheme, but without the provision for slow speed tracks. Trains en-route to Canada displayed green on the marker lamps in place of yellow, to comply with Canadian operating rules. NYC did the same, across Ontario and into Quebec.

It was possible, in the case of a locomotive running backward light or at the rear of a train pushing cars, to have markers and classification lamps at the same location on the train. In that case, the classification lamps were high on the smoke box front, and the markers were down on the pilot beam.

Don't confuse markers with classification lamps. They were two entirely different things. Please help preserve the heritage by maintaining the correct terminology, even if the subject seems to be arcane.
 #62035  by Noel Weaver
 
Well, there are some cases of years back when the "classification lights"
were actually marker lights. In the case of a set of light locomotives,
the rear unit would have the red marker lights displayed. It has only been the past few years that the headlight was required to be on dim on
the rear of light engine movements.
I do not recall of any place where red lights were used on the head end of
a locomotive consist with the sole exception of when there was no
headlight, instructions then were to use any and all existing lights on the
head end which would include class or marker lights too.
Some engines actually had the class light switch labelled as marker lights
but I cannot recall exactly which ones at this stage.
Noel Weaver
 #62242  by ChiefTroll
 
I was talking about the Standard Code of Operating Rules, which has been practically superseded on US railroads. If a lamp on a locomotive was green or white, it was a classification light. If it was red, it was a marker. It makes no difference what the plate next to the switch on the locomotive said. It was prescribed by the Book of Rules.

When I said that classification lamps and markers could be displayed on the same end of the locomotive, I said it was only in the case of a locomotive running backward as a light engine or at the rear of a train. In that case, the classification lamps would still be on the top half of the smokebox front, even though it was at the rear of the train. The markers would be on the pilot beam below the smokebox, because markers were always placed at the rear of the train, regardless of what was at the rear, and which way it was headed.

If the rear car was not equipped with marker lamp brackets (a box car, for example) most railroads' rules called for a red lantern to be hung at the rear and a red flag to be placed in the knuckle as markers.

Markers were never green or white, and classification lamps were never red.