Railroad Forums 

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPKCR.com. Includes Kansas City Southern. There is also a KCS sub-forum for prior operations: kansas-city-southern-and-affiliates-f153.html

Moderators: Komachi, Ken V

 #276229  by trevor macpherson
 
Ive heard several times that CP is going to sell the D&H to NS. Could anybody clear this up and maybe keep posting updates about this topic.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry about the title. My keyboard has got to be one of Microsofts worst for doubleing letters and adding extra stuff. Whoops!!!

Edit by Ken V 08/09/06 10:48 pm EDT: I updated subject line to remove the"typo" ... I make the same mistake all the time (the backspace and "\" keys are way too close together :-) )

 #276246  by AgentSkelly
 
Isn't there one of these rumors year after year

yes

 #276347  by trevor macpherson
 
Yes there is but this time it seems more realistic. Because now theres rumours about the Mechanicville Yard being reopened by NS. So why would NS want to do that??? Its a CP yard. And CP dosnt like this line because it makes them less money.......This is a e-mail from a friend of mine about this topic...and I follow right along with him......


Of course you have read 'rumours' of a CPR takeover. And by the UP, perhaps. I think UP would deal off D&H to NS. The NS NEEDS it. (It may be a clause in the CP/NS contract for running over the D&H as it is, who knows?)
CPR did not make a lot of money off the D&H line because of maintenance and actually, very few trains. Line is under-utilized. (Not much money is made on NS trains over the line (930/931/168/169.) These all have trackage rights over D&H and have NS crews.....Doesn't leave much left.
BUT....if you really want to get into the subject; I'm assuming you don't; I'm just giving you something to think about....................CP pleads the line is a money-loser, closing yards, cutting jobs and generally crying the blues...maybe looking for NY State tax relief?? But the CPR helps MAKE the D&H look like a loser...............notice the high-maintenance (costly) old locomotives that are very fuel INefficient are assigned to this line; CP shuffles all the junk power down to the D&H........costly breakdowns charged to D&H as well as the problems that go with it; ie) recrewing, late delivery; trains held up all over the place...........all of this costs far more than it does per trip/miles/whatever than it does in Canada and this makes the D&H look a lot worse than it really is. So gives the CPR a good excuse when they try to deal it off. You may note on reason why on-line traffic has dried up is because shippers get overly annoyed at changes, delays and the like and end up going back to trucks.
I LOVE railfanning the D&H..............all the old power that is mostly gone from mainline Canada is found down here; at least it was, finally the RR is bringing in some of the new ACs etc., in former years I loved the lashups. In Canada, 2 or 3 locos, down on the D&H; 4,6,7 or even 8 old units make for a much more entertaining photo.

 #276403  by umtrr-author
 
The tactic of, well, let's call it "creative accounting," is apparently not new to North American Railroads, or to the larger Corporate America for that matter.

It wouldn't surprise me to see a subsidiary like D&H have expenses charged to it in order to present an unfavorable picture.

 #276689  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
I heard the NYS&W was going to get it............ :wink:

 #277168  by Wanderer
 
This is like a bad urban legend. It surfaces every couple of years. Other than the normal infectious foamer rumors, I highly doubt there is any more truth to it now than there has ever been.

 #277994  by james_h
 
Yeah these rumours just refuse to die. CP is apparently not looking to merger with UP as per the CEO, and from what I've heard the D&H is safe.
As someone has already pointed out the D&H still exists for accounting purposes, and while it has not trains, it is the company that own and maintains the tracks. So I suspect on paper that the D&H looses money and does indeed look like something that CP would want to get rid of.
It's also interesting to not that a couple of weeks ago when the Binghamton yards were flooded CP ran several dail detours through my neck of the woods, and while this was not a huge amount of traffic, it was as much as I've seen run on other lines that there are no rumours about.
My personal opinion is that the D&H will be around for a while, and as long as it's operated as a seperate company on paper it's revenue will continue to create rumors.

James.

 #280086  by Ken V
 
Several years ago the CPR grouped the D&H together with their routes in Quebec and southern Ontario and spun them off, creating the St. Lawrence & Hudson Railway (at least on paper). The STLH was given one year to turn things around or face the chopping block. As you can guess, things did improve, very nicely, and the STLH was absorbed back into CP.

For now, I think CP wants (and needs) to keep the D&H.

 #281648  by lock4244
 
It is generally agreed by the "experts" that there will be one final round of mergers... whether or not it's good for the industry. So I think whatever way these final mergers go, D&H goes to NS eventually. If the merger is UP/CSX/CP and BNSF/NS/CN, D&H will go to the BNSF/NS/CN camp and probably do quite well. If the mergers go UP/NS/CP and BNSF/CSX/CN, D&H stays where it is and does quite well. Either way, I don't think D&H will be peddled out to a third party like NYSW or RailAmerica or whoever... the folks at NS and CP know it will be important in the future.

 #286533  by trevor macpherson
 
Good thoughts and post guys keep them coming. This is very interesting. Thanks!!!!

 #317542  by Skullitor
 
CP is running newer wide cab GE's a lot on the D&H including on Pig trains.
But I enjoy seeing the "RED BARNS" in East Deerfield Yard.

 #322544  by trevor macpherson
 
what are Pig trains

 #322578  by Ken V
 
trevor macpherson wrote:what are Pig trains
Pig trains are those carrying intermodal containers. The term comes from the original trailer-on-flatcar trains called "piggyback"s.

 #338614  by NV290
 
Am i the only one who does see that if NS does in fact buy the D&H that it would lead to even more rumors of them getting ready to take over Guilford as well? Everyone seems to be in denial on Guilford that NS is going to buy them out one day, but NS sure does spend alot of time and money on Guilford property. Hmmm.

 #338627  by Skullitor
 
Guilford / PanAm Railways Intermodal trains (PIG TRAINS) AYMO & MOAY
Ayer,Ma to Mohawk Yard,and return, is run and marketed by the N.S.