• The end of CP reign at the D&H and the D.M.&E

  • Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPR.CA.
Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPR.CA.

Moderators: Komachi, Ken V

  by Chicagorail1
 
Good Bye D.M.& E. Good Bye D&H.

We where told today in company memo from Hunter, that the D.M.&E will be sold off ASAP along with the D&H, because they our not in the "operating plan".

Also Bensenville will be converted to flat switch only, with a major part of Bensenville being converted to handle a lot more intermodal traffic.
  by CN9634
 
While this certainly isn't a surprising development, do you have anything more concrete or will we have to wait for some sort of announcement?
  by alexandre181
 
About the D&H, do you know if CP intent to abandon also the Lacolle Subdivision that connect with the ex; D&H Canadian Subdivison at Rousse Point? Trafic will be trun down at Montreal perhaps...
  by KEN PATRICK
 
i'm thinking that guilford bought the d&h out of bankruptcy for $500k. then wrote up their investment 10's of millions ( i think $40 million but not sure) then sold it to cp for $20 million.
does anyone have the exact numbers
does anyone have the current traffic count?
is csxt now running albany to montreal traffic on the d&h?
ken patrick
  by alexandre181
 
KEN PATRICK wrote:i'm thinking that guilford bought the d&h out of bankruptcy for $500k. then wrote up their investment 10's of millions ( i think $40 million but not sure) then sold it to cp for $20 million.
does anyone have the exact numbers
does anyone have the current traffic count?
is csxt now running albany to montreal traffic on the d&h?
ken patrick

Maybe CSXT will running to Montreal traffic... That's a good hypothesis.
I know CSXT have increase its traffic at Huntingdon, QC for Intermodal service. So It will be a great place for transit containers from NY to Montreal by the south Quebec

Alex
  by JayBee
 
The situation has now been clarified;

The DM&E west of Pierre, SD will be sold, CP has no interest in the Powder River Basin.
All Hump Yards except for St. Paul, MN will be converted to flat switching, St. Paul Yd. will receive unspecified improvements.
The Unit Oil train movements for the Philadelphia area currently operating via Detroit, Buffalo, Binghamton, and Harrisburg are inefficient and the trains will be interchanged to NS or CSX at Chicago instead.
The Delaware & Hudson has lost money every year since the purchase by CP, nevertheless CP is going to retain the D & H for now and will attempt to improve the situation.
CP Senior Management is top heavy at Calgary and several Vice-President positions will be eliminated soon.

Further details to be announced in December.
  by CN9634
 
JayBee wrote:The situation has now been clarified;

The DM&E west of Pierre, SD will be sold, CP has no interest in the Powder River Basin.
All Hump Yards except for St. Paul, MN will be converted to flat switching, St. Paul Yd. will receive unspecified improvements.
The Unit Oil train movements for the Philadelphia area currently operating via Detroit, Buffalo, Binghamton, and Harrisburg are inefficient and the trains will be interchanged to NS or CSX at Chicago instead.
The Delaware & Hudson has lost money every year since the purchase by CP, nevertheless CP is going to retain the D & H for now and will attempt to improve the situation.
CP Senior Management is top heavy at Calgary and several Vice-President positions will be eliminated soon.

Further details to be announced in December.
So no one wants the D&H right now or CP is asking too much ;)
  by JayBee
 
CN9634 wrote:
So no one wants the D&H right now or CP is asking too much ;)
Hard to tell, but NS already has what they want, and CSX is partnered primarily with CN in the area.
  by rovetherr
 
With the Global Fuel terminal in Kenwood Yard ramping up its capacity to receive oil trains, and a projected through-put of 240 cars a day at full build out (2 120-car trains), the D+H seems to be in a position to stay in the family for awhile longer. However, it appears that many of the local trains are being abolished, and plant switching is in the process of being farmed out at several of the larger customers. What this will mean in the long term, is anyone's guess. Short-term, home every night jobs are getting harder to hold down. The switching train that served us at Whitehall, 451, was abolished several weeks ago. Now, there is word that the local in the area DA-13 is on the block as well.
  by mtuandrew
 
JayBee wrote:The DM&E west of Pierre, SD will be sold, CP has no interest in the Powder River Basin.
That sounds like code for "abandon the DM&E from Pierre to Ellsworth Air Force Base, and let BNSF handle the interchange traffic from the south end." Railfans, get your shots while you can.
  by KEN PATRICK
 
what jobs remain to switch the stone loads at glens falls and saratoga springs. what jobs move the stone loads to csxt at mechanicville? thanks. ken patrick
  by CPF363
 
Where are and who are the largest consignees on the D.M.&E today? Are they largely east of Pierre? Would another railroad be interested in the D.M.&E whole or in pieces? CP has been buying a right-of-way into the PRB, what will happen to these purchases? Will this line ever make into the PRB and would it be wort it? Physically, what is the condition of the track structure; is it CWR or jointed 100# and 115# rail?

With respect to the D&H, any predictions as to what will happen with this line? Will Norfolk Southern go for the whole thing, Rouses Point to Sunbury or will it be split, NS south of Mechanicville and CSXT north, or will CP retain the north end?
  by Tadman
 
Any word on the Chicago-Detroit run? CP made a pretty big deal of leaving CSX(PM) for NS(NYC). That said, I have no idea if this made sense or not, and if EHH will continue to believe in the numbers or not. CSX(PM) is pretty quiet these days... I've been staying along the line in SW Michigan for a few days and we don't hear anything other than Amtrak and the coal train.
  by JayBee
 
CPF363 wrote:Where are and who are the largest consignees on the D.M.&E today? Are they largely east of Pierre? Would another railroad be interested in the D.M.&E whole or in pieces? CP has been buying a right-of-way into the PRB, what will happen to these purchases? Will this line ever make into the PRB and would it be worth it? Physically, what is the condition of the track structure; is it CWR or jointed 100# and 115# rail?
The largest customers on the original DM&E are the Ethanol plants at Redfield, Huron, and Aurora, SD. In Minnesota there are several more Ethanol plants and a couple of Shuttle Grain elevators. CP has stated that they have no interest in the Powder River Basin. The rail is gradually being converted to welded rail, some new, some relay, as far as Huron, SD. Beyond that point it will remain stick rail for now. CP has been has been upgrading the track from Huron to the east. Cutting the west end at Pierre eliminates the Missouri River bridge at Pierre, but doesn't alienate the State of South Dakota. It wouldn't surprise me if the State of South Dakota bought the line west of Pierre.

With respect to the D&H, any predictions as to what will happen with this line? Will Norfolk Southern go for the whole thing, Rouses Point to Sunbury or will it be split, NS south of Mechanicville and CSXT north, or will CP retain the north end?
I don't see either NS or CSX as being interested enough to buy the north end of the D&H, as long as the Oil and Ethanol traffic to Albany holds up I think that at a minimum CP would retain at least that much of the D&H. I don't see any reason at this time why NS would want to buy the south end, unless or until they would want to make a major upgrade somewhere.
  by CPF363
 
JayBee wrote:Cutting the west end at Pierre eliminates the Missouri River bridge at Pierre, but doesn't alienate the State of South Dakota. It wouldn't surprise me if the State of South Dakota bought the line west of Pierre.
Does DM&E have any large customers west of Pierre or are they all small ones towards Rapid City? Online postings state that much of the line west of Pierre has issues with clay or slurry type of soil when it is wet. Is this why the track is 10MPH on this part? If the PRB were to come to be, how would they deal with this problem? Is this portion still all jointed rail?