Questions from an Eastern railfan

[DonPevsner]

I just completed my first trip (AMTRAK) on the former AT&SF from Chicago to Albuquerque and the former GN from Seattle-St. Paul (and--I presume--on the SOO Line/CP from there to Chicago). Some questions, please:

(1)There was a very long tunnel about an hour west of Whitefish,
Montana. It seemed longer than the 4.75-mile Hoosac Tunnel in
NW Massachusetts. Details, please? (How long? When built?)

(2)We seemed to be on secondary ("stick") rail into Grand Forks,
after smooth welded rail most of the way from Seattle. Does the
ex-BN/GN main line go direct to Fargo, and east to St. Paul from there?

(3)There was an old Budd observation car, with all windows sealed,
sitting at the AMTRAK St. Paul station. Any details on the owner and
original railroad for this car?

(4)What happened to the classic, old original St. Paul/Minneapolis
railroad stations? AMTRAK surely isn't one of them.

(5)The State of New Mexico is reportedly about to buy 260 miles
of former AT&SF/BNSF track from Belen, NM to Raton, NM. What
use will continue for:

(a)The line over Raton Pass, as far as La Junta? Does BNSF
move its Denver-California freight over this line?

(b)The line from La Junta to Newton, which cannot see much
traffic other than AMTRAK #3/4 and a few local freights...
unless there is a disaster somewhere along the Belen Cutoff?

(6)Which route(s) did the original GN "Empire Builder" and NP
"North Coast Limited" use from Minneapolis/St. Paul to Chicago?

Thanks for your replies.

[AmtrakFan]

1-3 Don't know
4. Last I heard it was being used for offices for nothing related to the railroad
5. It will remain in it's current use but someday they want Denver-Albaqurque Trains on it.
6. The Chicago Burlington and Quincy route via Savanna, Rochelle/Aurora.

[2nd trick op]

(1) The tunnel in question is the Flathead Tunnel, built as part of a line relocation forced by construction of the Flathead Dam in the 1960's. It's not quite as long as the Cascade Tunnel in Washington, but slightly longer than the UP (ex-D&RGW/D&SL) Moffat Tunnel in Colorado. Hoosac is number 4 on the list.

(2) In the days of independent GN operation, the line offered passenger servcice on two routes between the Twin Cities and Minot, one via Willmar and another via New Rockford. The Empire Builder followed one route, the Western Star another, and there was at least one other passenger run through the 1950's

Also, the original Northern Pacific transcontinental route originated at Duluth, not at the Twin Cities. From there it went to Fargo, Miles City, and the (comparatively) populous cities of the southern tier of Monatana. The Great Nothern originated in the Twins, crossed the NP at Fargo, then proceeded west along the sparsely-settled northern tier of North Dakota and Montana via Minot and Havre. Minimalist Jim Hill was focused on a direct route to the Pacific Coast with lower grades from the outset.

Can't help with question #3, however.

[AmtrakFan]

For Question 3 I just found out it's owned by the Art Train.

[Komachi]

Hey, did somebody mention Minnesota?

(Play "Minnesota Rouser" here)


Okay, I can answer the question of the old railroad stations in the Twin Cities. Union Station is still around, although it is now a mall. There's actually a plan to bring commuter rail to the Twin Cities area with Union Station as a hub, interconnecting the Commuter lines, Amtrak, the Hiawatha light rail and bus networks (still speculative as for now, but is planned as part of the waterfront redevelopment project near the Mississippi River).

The old Milwaukee Road depot is still in existence, as part of a multi-use facility housing a hotel, convention center and the train shed is now a big ice rink.

The old Great Northern terminal was demolished in 1978 when Amtrak moved to the new Midway station.

So, that's the info. about the Minneapolis/St. Paul railroad stations.

[bnsfjordan]

Regarding question 5, BNSF will still operate and maintain the Raton Pass line. Currently, the only trains that BNSF operates over the line are rerouted Z trains, empty grain trains, empty vehicle trains, and baretables. The line from La Junta to Newton also remains unaffected for now.

[Fatal]

(1)There was a very long tunnel about an hour west of Whitefish,
Montana. It seemed longer than the 4.75-mile Hoosac Tunnel in
NW Massachusetts. Details, please? (How long? When built?)

Flathead tunnel...7 miles....built 1970