CMQ Operations

[csx2039]

They are known to establish businesses grow them to the point of others interest and sell them at profit I think in time this will be true once again and I think NS is the perfect fit but what stands in their way is the outright sale of PAR to NS, I welcome opinions on this idea

I agree...
NS will eventually have interest up the coast with a direct connection with NBSR, especially with expanding port. There is no benefit of adding 2 additional carriers, (VRS/CMQ) and having to deal with a stubborn NECR to boot, an extra border crossing, as well as the inability to run double stacks up the conn river. Makes no sense.

[fogg1703]

I'm interested what CP potash trains are you talking about?

CN was running occasional unit Potash trains from Saskatchewan to Saint John for export to South American ports (mainly Brazil) and Cuba to avoid Panama Canal crossings.

NS will eventually have interest up the coast with a direct connection with NBSR, especially with expanding port. There is no benefit of adding 2 additional carriers, (VRS/CMQ) and having to deal with a stubborn NECR to boot, an extra border crossing, as well as the inability to run double stacks up the conn river. Makes no sense.

I can see NS to Ayer, but NS into Portland or further north? What's the gain for NS?

I'm sure Irving only wants to be dragged through one very public lawsuit over a train destined for their refinery, which means it'll be done with scrappy regionals doing their hauling in the near future. Buy the Moosehead and you connect to all four Class I's in and around Montreal and get serious about moving tonnage. If its NS you desire to reach, their purchase of southern end of D&H solidifies their Montreal-Enola train now and JDI can fill it up even more than they already do.

[murray83]

I know of CN's potash operations but there was talk of CP potash that never happened and CN will never hand that over to CMQ that's a given

I'm going to go out on a limb and say CMQ is the last operator of the Moosehead,since 1995 there have been now 4 operators and all have failed who would want it now? Irving doesn't

JDI maybe gets the remainder of the old BAR,Vermont operations hopefully go to VRS (for everyone's sake) and maybe some of the old Quebec Southern to get better access for routing and the rest gets abandoned its fate it's just a matter of time

[csx2039]

I can see NS to Ayer, but NS into Portland or further north? What's the gain for NS?

A direct connection with NBSR and the port of Saint John, CN has one.

[fogg1703]

A direct connection with NBSR and the port of Saint John, CN has one.

Thats a big commitment of money and resources for track upgrades (and DS clearance) for an average of say 50 cars/day they can steal away from CSX and whatever intermodal headed for the eastern US they can get. From a business perspective let PAR trundle over their lines and deliver your cars at Ayer for no extra cost and let marketing go after the CSX rates that are siphoning off the maritime traffic.

Bringing this back on topic, the NBSR/CMQ route is all ready cleared for DS and poised to take advantage of any growth for the Port of Saint John. The Port expansion may also hopefully signify a greater auto movement for export out of Saint John as well as the current domestic distribution.

[CN9634]

A direct connection with NBSR and the port of Saint John, CN has one.

Thats a big commitment of money and resources for track upgrades (and DS clearance) for an average of say 50 cars/day they can steal away from CSX and whatever intermodal headed for the eastern US they can get. From a business perspective let PAR trundle over their lines and deliver your cars at Ayer for no extra cost and let marketing go after the CSX rates that are siphoning off the maritime traffic.

Bringing this back on topic, the NBSR/CMQ route is all ready cleared for DS and poised to take advantage of any growth for the Port of Saint John. The Port expansion may also hopefully signify a greater auto movement for export out of Saint John as well as the current domestic distribution.

You have to realize the under utilizedd potential of PAR in the hands of NS or CSX could probably double or triple the current traffic. A connection with CMQ/NBSR would be huge. Also this is a container port expansion, no mention of a ro-ro upgrade... but you can ship cars in Containers (I've done it before!)

[csx2039]

Conn River will not see auto racks or double stacks, too many obstacles - tunnels (Bellows Falls)(Greenfield), low bridges(NPT to WRJ), bad track north of WRJ, no crews and no power(PAS, CMQ), stuborn NECR, crappy CMQ service, crappy CMQ marketing. The list goes on and on... Sounds good on paper but NS-PAS-VRS-CMQ-NBSR will not happen anytime soon... This is a guarantee.

[fogg1703]

You have to realize the under utilizedd potential of PAR in the hands of NS or CSX could probably double or triple the current traffic. A connection with CMQ/NBSR would be huge.

Any Class I connection to NBSR would be huge, providing a much needed traffic boost to either PAR or CMQ lines. Lets see if anyone can put up a fight against CN for some of this potential new container traffic.

Also this is a container port expansion, no mention of a ro-ro upgrade... but you can ship cars in Containers (I've done it before!)

A second read of the CTV article confirms your statement that in fact these improvements are not just meant for the "west side waterfront" as the article starts out by stating but specifically the container infrastructure. Wishful thinking on my part I guess. Would be nice to see some upgrades to the tracks to the Navy Island Terminal though.

[CN9634]

Conn River will not see auto racks or double stacks, too many obstacles - tunnels (Bellows Falls)(Greenfield), low bridges(NPT to WRJ), bad track north of WRJ, no crews and no power(PAS, CMQ), stuborn NECR, crappy CMQ service, crappy CMQ marketing. The list goes on and on... Sounds good on paper but NS-PAS-VRS-CMQ-NBSR will not happen anytime soon... This is a guarantee.

I challenge that.

[csx2039]

Conn River will not see auto racks or double stacks, too many obstacles - tunnels (Bellows Falls)(Greenfield), low bridges(NPT to WRJ), bad track north of WRJ, no crews and no power(PAS, CMQ), stuborn NECR, crappy CMQ service, crappy CMQ marketing. The list goes on and on... Sounds good on paper but NS-PAS-VRS-CMQ-NBSR will not happen anytime soon... This is a guarantee.

I challenge that.

I hope your right, I would like to see business really grow on this route but Im not holding my breath.

[NHV 669]

I was under the impression that the tracks have already been lowered in the BF tunnel? Correct me if I'm wrong

[murray83]

Why would the port want to upgrade the 2 tracks at the navy island forest products terminal?

[CPF363]

Conn River will not see auto racks or double stacks, too many obstacles - tunnels (Bellows Falls)(Greenfield), low bridges(NPT to WRJ), bad track north of WRJ, no crews and no power(PAS, CMQ), stuborn NECR, crappy CMQ service, crappy CMQ marketing. The list goes on and on... Sounds good on paper but NS-PAS-VRS-CMQ-NBSR will not happen anytime soon... This is a guarantee.

Why wouldn't NS simply interchange cars for the CMQ to the CP at Saratoga and have the CP run them north to Delson, QC and then run east to St-Jean to connect directly with the CMQ there? The connecting track at Delson to the east could be fixed up and allow run through between Brownville Jct. and NS completely bypassing the PAR and PAS and would prove to be a much faster route than going over the Conn River or the old MEC.

[CN9634]

I'm sure some stuff has been routed that way before but at the end of the day costs and control can be factors. If you can offer a better rate through a certain gateway, you can attract more traffic. Also, controlling more of the interchange points and/or friendly connections is a plus.

[csx2039]

[/quote]
Why wouldn't NS simply interchange cars for the CMQ to the CP at Saratoga and have the CP run them north to Delson, QC and then run east to St-Jean to connect directly with the CMQ there? The connecting track at Delson to the east could be fixed up and allow run through between Brownville Jct. and NS completely bypassing the PAR and PAS and would prove to be a much faster route than going over the Conn River or the old MEC.[/quote]

I believe you are right and this will be the preferred route as it has been for the last 3 owners, CP has upped their rates since harrison took over and Im sure Giles is looking at his options. (Hence all this conn river talk) But in the end this is the best route and will see the most traffic as it is now and has been right along. If CMQ can get their stuff together.

Auto racks will fit through Bellows Falls now, but not Greenfield. So its ok for NECR but not PAS
Full double stacks will not fit through either tunnels. Many low bridges on WACR as well

The majority of this traffic will have to go CP in Montreal for the most gain to CMQ. There is also talk of CMQ opening the Saint-Guillaume sub to give them an uninterrupted connection with CN, but this will take a lot of work. Lets not forget the chance CP may merge with an eastern carrier, this is a long shot but would further guaranty the CP montreal connection remains dominant.