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  • Amtrak in Transition

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1037747  by gokeefe
 
For almost 41 years now Amtrak has been the sole national operator of inter city trains in the United States. As I have previously stated elsewhere for most, if not all of this period, the company has been trying to run their operations in spite of significant disadvantages in quantity and quality of available equipment and the requirement to run historic transcontinental long distance routes.

Over the next few years Amtrak is in position to eliminate, across a broad range of categories, a great deal of the remaining unique equipment in their fleets. Additional efforts in the area of electric motive power will re-standardize a fleet that had become highly fragmented over the years due to the lack of a long term acquisition and replacement program. In some respects the completion of expected acquisitions of new "Viewliner" rolling stock and electric locomotives will represent the culmination of a process that began in 1973 when Amtrak's efforts at fleet modernization and standardization began with the purchase of the first SDP40F locomotives.

As the new acquisitions arrive Amtrak will finally retire its last remaining pieces of "Heritage" equipment, now nearly 70 years old in some cases. However, unlike many previous equipment orders, arrangements have been made to provided expanded capacity of the fleet pool for several rolling stock categories, single level sleepers and diners specifically. Sleeper capacity will also be addressed through the addition to the fleet of new baggage-dorm cars, which for the first time in almost a decade will allow Amtrak to sell all available space in their most frequently sold out "Roomette" accommodations. There have been additional indications that as part of this process Amtrak anticipates rehabilitating their current fleet of Viewliner sleepers once construction of the new cars is complete.

As we watch this cycle come to completion over the next 5+ years Amtrak will in effect be completing a transition that began 40+ years ago on May 1, 1971 when they took over the passenger operations of 20 different railroads and ever since then have attempted to merge, standardize and otherwise create a uniform and seamless operation. Whether or not Amtrak is ultimately able to be substantially more competitive because of these changes is open for debate. They will still be required to operate unwieldy long distance routes across the country which have very low ridership and tend to require enormous resources. However, at the very least they no longer will be missing revenues and market share in places where they clearly can be competitive, such as the East Coast Florida services. Although a continuation of the status quo ante is certainly possible, it doesn't seem likely, especially given the continuing challenges of airline travel.

Any discussion of either the premise or its potential outcomes is appreciated.
 #1037764  by R36 Combine Coach
 
The new Viewliner order will replace Heritage cars dating back to 1947 (with others from the 1950s as well).

But the next big thing (perhaps on a large scale) will be the next generation single-level Corridor cars. The Amfleets date to 1975-76 and will likely see another decade. They are Amtrak's backbone, especially in the East and also work in the Midwest and West. The Amfleets have seen many changes in their lives: first hauled by GG1s and P30CHs before F40s and AEM7s and now soldier on.
 #1037792  by Greg Moore
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote:The new Viewliner order will replace Heritage cars dating back to 1947 (with others from the 1950s as well).

But the next big thing (perhaps on a large scale) will be the next generation single-level Corridor cars. The Amfleets date to 1975-76 and will likely see another decade. They are Amtrak's backbone, especially in the East and also work in the Midwest and West. The Amfleets have seen many changes in their lives: first hauled by GG1s and P30CHs before F40s and AEM7s and now soldier on.
You left out the biggest change the Amfleets have seen.. going from awful orange/brown '70s colors to something MUCH nicer.

Things do get better. :-)
 #1037853  by gokeefe
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote:But the next big thing (perhaps on a large scale) will be the next generation single-level Corridor cars. The Amfleets date to 1975-76 and will likely see another decade. They are Amtrak's backbone, especially in the East and also work in the Midwest and West. The Amfleets have seen many changes in their lives: first hauled by GG1s and P30CHs before F40s and AEM7s and now soldier on.
Indeed.

I would consider the Amfleet cars as arguably Amtrak's single biggest step in the transition from a fractioned collection of services and original rolling stock to a single national super carrier. The Superliners (I&II) are a close second.

Over the years Amtrak has invested enormous amounts of capital keeping this fleet largely intact and uniform. The ARRA Amfleet rebuild program has brought the whole pool to a status of readiness likely unseen since initial delivery from the manufacturer.

The question remains, will uniformity, and a pool of equipment, that is large enough and flexible enough to meet demand, substantially alter Amtrak's share of the market on certain routes? I think it will. And that will be the coda to a 40+ year effort to build a national passenger railroad.

[EDIT:Clarity, grammar]
Last edited by gokeefe on Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1037947  by gprimr1
 
I agree. If Amtrak can get to a point where it can add capacity to sold out trains, I think it's only going to grow more.
 #1038079  by jstolberg
 
Not only is Amtrak in transition, they are part of a great modal shift in America.
America’s young people are decreasing the amount they drive and increasing their use of transportation alternatives.
  • According to the National Household Travel Survey, from 2001 to 2009, the annual number of vehicle-miles traveled by young people (16 to 34-year-olds) decreased from 10,300 miles to 7,900 miles per capita – a drop of 23 percent.
  • In 2009, 16 to 34-year-olds as a whole took 24 percent more bike trips than they took in 2001, despite the age group actually shrinking in size by 2 percent.
  • In 2009, 16 to 34-year-olds walked to destinations 16 percent more frequently than did 16 to 34-year-olds living in 2001.
  • From 2001 to 2009, the number of passenger-miles traveled by 16 to 34-year-olds on public transit increased by 40 percent.
  • According to Federal Highway Administration, from 2000 to 2010, the share of 14 to 34-year-olds without a driver’s license increased from 21 percent to 26 percent.
http://www.frontiergroup.org/reports/fg ... generation

Given the preferences of today's younger generation, new equipment should have:
  • Wi-fi
  • bicycle storage
 #1038124  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Many corridor trains aren't bike friendly, especially those without baggage service or bike racks. This includes most Amfleet trains in the East (all Northeast Regionals, Keystones, Empire Corridor, Vermonter/Ethan Allen and Adirondack). Most intercity buses allow bikes in the cargo comparment, often for a fee.
 #1038245  by gokeefe
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote:Many corridor trains aren't bike friendly, especially those without baggage service or bike racks. This includes most Amfleet trains in the East (all Northeast Regionals, Keystones, Empire Corridor, Vermonter/Ethan Allen and Adirondack). Most intercity buses allow bikes in the cargo comparment, often for a fee.
Most but not all! The Downeaster has a limited number of spaces available for unboxed bicycles which are handled only at Portland, Wells or Boston. Perhaps someday they will add ORB ("OOB") or Freeport (no code...yet....) as a "bicycle station".
 #1038266  by jstolberg
 
Bringing this back to the topic, with the delivery of the Viewliner II order, the only remaining equipment that dates back to before Amtrak's inception will be 5 Pacific Parlour cars. (Personally, I think that Amtrak will be keeping a few Heritage diners around for the extra seating they provide during peak periods on long distance routes until some long distance coach cars are added, but that's speculation.)

In addition to the 130 Viewliner II cars on order, Amtrak also has 70 electic locomotives on order. That's 200 pieces of equipment. Before delivery begins on this equipment, orders are expected to be placed on another 40 Acela cars and the states are expected to order 120 bi-level corridor cars and a dozen or so diesel locomotives. Amtrak will no longer be working with hand-me-downs from near-bankrupt carriers.

Ridership on Amtrak is at an all time high; sleeper sales are at an all-time high; and the future looks bright.
 #1038272  by Greg Moore
 
jstolberg wrote:Bringing this back to the topic, with the delivery of the Viewliner II order, the only remaining equipment that dates back to before Amtrak's inception will be 5 Pacific Parlour cars. (Personally, I think that Amtrak will be keeping a few Heritage diners around for the extra seating they provide during peak periods on long distance routes until some long distance coach cars are added, but that's speculation.)

In addition to the 130 Viewliner II cars on order, Amtrak also has 70 electic locomotives on order. That's 200 pieces of equipment. Before delivery begins on this equipment, orders are expected to be placed on another 40 Acela cars and the states are expected to order 120 bi-level corridor cars and a dozen or so diesel locomotives. Amtrak will no longer be working with hand-me-downs from near-bankrupt carriers.

Ridership on Amtrak is at an all time high; sleeper sales are at an all-time high; and the future looks bright.
And don't forget, Amtrak has an option on an additional 70 Viewliner II cars. An option I'd love to see them act upon.
 #1038303  by gokeefe
 
jstolberg wrote:Bringing this back to the topic, with the delivery of the Viewliner II order, the only remaining equipment that dates back to before Amtrak's inception will be 5 Pacific Parlour cars. (Personally, I think that Amtrak will be keeping a few Heritage diners around for the extra seating they provide during peak periods on long distance routes until some long distance coach cars are added, but that's speculation.)
John,

Nice catch on the Pacific Parlour cars. I completely missed them in my initial post. In re: the Heritage diners, based on previous posts by those who work with them I wouldn't hold my breath. They have all kinds of problems, many related to the fact that each car is unique. I would think Amtrak will shut these cars down as fast as they possible can. As far as their single level fleet goes these cars are almost undoubtedly a major cost center for them which consumes disproportionate maintenance resources.

In re: your more general observation one has to wonder what does the future really look like?

What does it really mean for the public to have a "real" option for rail service? By "real" I'm referring to general public perception, not actuality. In actuality Amtrak has provided a "real" option since its inception in many of the markets that it serves, however public perception of this option has varied greatly over the year.

What does it mean when people in America by force of habit at least consider using Amtrak for virtually any travel, i.e. at a minimum checking the website to see if Amtrak goes there? That's a whole new reality for most people who wouldn't even think twice about never looking at their options on amtrak.com.

The extension of the Downeaster north of Portland is having similar effects. Breaking this deeply important psychological barrier (Portland South vs. the rest of Maine) is having a cultural effect up here that, prior even to service startup is making people think again about how to travel.

Likewise, on a national basis, Amtrak is on the cusp of breaking through from being a marginal presence in American travel to being ubiquitous in many areas. High frequency corridor services are a huge part of why these efforts are working.
 #1038363  by afiggatt
 
jstolberg wrote:Bringing this back to the topic, with the delivery of the Viewliner II order, the only remaining equipment that dates back to before Amtrak's inception will be 5 Pacific Parlour cars. (Personally, I think that Amtrak will be keeping a few Heritage diners around for the extra seating they provide during peak periods on long distance routes until some long distance coach cars are added, but that's speculation.)
The FY12-FY16 5 Year financial plan Rolling Stock count projection table shows all the Heritage diners retired before the end of FY15 (total active drops to 8 by end of FY14). The table shows 25 Heritage baggage cars remaining as active in FY15 and FY16. Amtrak can cherry pick the best of the old baggage cars and set them aside I would guess as reserve equipment for use in case. Or use some of them on an interim basis if they need more baggage cars for corridor train expansion, while they order additional baggage cars from CAF.

The 5 year plan also shows the 6 Heritage Dome/Parlor Cars as in active service through the end of FY16 which is consistent with the V2 Fleet Strategy Plan published in February 2011. We will see what the next version of the Fleet Strategy Plan says about them - and all the other equipment needs - if If Amtrak is not going to place orders for Superliner replacements in the next few years.
jstolberg wrote: In addition to the 130 Viewliner II cars on order, Amtrak also has 70 electic locomotives on order. That's 200 pieces of equipment. Before delivery begins on this equipment, orders are expected to be placed on another 40 Acela cars and the states are expected to order 120 bi-level corridor cars and a dozen or so diesel locomotives. Amtrak will no longer be working with hand-me-downs from near-bankrupt carriers.

Ridership on Amtrak is at an all time high; sleeper sales are at an all-time high; and the future looks bright.
The baseline number for the bi-level corridor car order was increased to 130 cars when the funding for the Chicago-Quad Cities portion of the Chicago-Iowa City corridor was obligated. I would not be surprised to see the total number increased by CA adding state funding to buy some additional cars to the order. The sustained growth in the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin services and the equipment needed for a Coast Daylight may force the state planners to re-evaluate their total equipment needs.

The HSIPR awards provided funding to order around 33 new diesel locomotives as I recall. Whether Amtrak adds onto the locomotive order, say X units as a first batch of P-42 replacements, for Amtrak general fleet use we shall see.
 #1038370  by jp1822
 
I can't help to think how fast Amtrak was to retire the Heritage sleepers only to see that having some extra sleepers around would have been a huge positive. They did in fact bring back three Heritage sleepers to hold down sleeping car service on the Three Rivers' NYP to Chicago runs for a few years - under special waiver for the potty issue. But retention tanks could have been installed, just as VIA Rail Canada has done with its fleet. And although some sleepers were converted to Crew lounges, more likely should have, or should have been put in reserve for future conversion. Amtrak scrambled in and around 2002 when the Auto derailed and then the Capitol Limited (taking out a number of Superliners). They had to do some major equipment manipulations and truncations to preserve routes. Not saying that having these Heritage cars in "reserve status" would have been the answer, but they may have helped, especially with Amtrak needing so many Viewliners out for periodic maintenance and other reasons (i.e. 25% of the Viewliner sleepers being held in reserve for maintenance or substitutes). My point being - the a few more Heritage sleepers being kept around and active, rather than being retired, likely would have been a good thing and alleviated some stress that Amtrak has gone through. Plus these are you "high revenue" cars. Thus retiring all the Heritage Diners and baggage cars may not be a good thing since cars need to be held in reserve and these Heritage cars could pinch hit where needed. Using a Heritage Diner for the sole purpose of a lounge (while also having a Viewliner Diner in the consist) at least gets the car out to stretch its legs a little and is not too far fetched. It could easily be put on the Lake Shore Limited's Boston section replacing the traditional lounge here. The single level lounge cars are more to be desired - or should I say Amfleet Diner Lite cars.

So I just hope that if Amtrak does resort to retiring the Heritage fleet, which I am sure they will some consideration is given for a "what-if" scenerio. Some Heritage Diners do come from similiar lineages and have received the same rebuild program. The Coast Starlight's Pacific Parlor Car - a Hi-Level ex AT&SF car - was a Heritage car that found a unique home. So too could some of the Heritage Diners with their large windows than say the Amfleet slit windows.
 #1038372  by afiggatt
 
Greg Moore wrote:And don't forget, Amtrak has an option on an additional 70 Viewliner II cars. An option I'd love to see them act upon.
There was a report that at the recent Empire State Passenger Association meeting, that the Amtrak representative stated that they were actively pursuing exercising the option order for the 70 CAF Viewliners. The option mix would change and how many cars would be dependent on funding, of course. Any exercise of the option would be from the four types in the current order. Coach and café/lounge cars would not be in the order mix. Which makes sense, as the design, specs, requirements, and prices are set for those 4 configurations in the contract with CAF. Coach and café/lounge cars would be a different design layout & parts with additional specs which would have to be bid and priced.

Since Amtrak is not going to need additional diner and baggage-dorms unless they plan to restore an LD train or two, the option exercise may be just for some additional baggage and sleeper cars. Looking at the overall demand and if Amtrak wants to add pass-through sleepers to the Pennsylvanian and a sleeper to #66/#67, they should order 5-10 additional sleepers to meet fleet needs while CAF is still building the sleeper cars. However, I think any additional orders from the 70 car option are going to wait until after the November election to see which the wind is blowing and until CAF has delivered cars for testing.
 #1038379  by jstolberg
 
afiggatt wrote:The baseline number for the bi-level corridor car order was increased to 130 cars when the funding for the Chicago-Quad Cities portion of the Chicago-Iowa City corridor was obligated. I would not be surprised to see the total number increased by CA adding state funding to buy some additional cars to the order. The sustained growth in the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin services and the equipment needed for a Coast Daylight may force the state planners to re-evaluate their total equipment needs.

The HSIPR awards provided funding to order around 33 new diesel locomotives as I recall. Whether Amtrak adds onto the locomotive order, say X units as a first batch of P-42 replacements, for Amtrak general fleet use we shall see.
Mr. Figgatt,
Good catch on the Chicago-Iowa City cars. I knew that the grant included rolling stock, but the joint state rolling stock order has so many parts to it I lose track. California is getting to the point that they need their own fleet management plan. They have been adding trains on a regular basis and plan on adding more on each of their routes. The California State Rail Plan has target dates for adding trains on each route but lacks a summary that identifies how much equipment they'll need to meet those targets in 2015, 2017 and beyond.

The first new rolling stock to hit the rails should be Oregon's two new Talgo trainsets. They are due to be delivered in June and have 10% more seating than the current Cascades trainsets. I wouldn't be surprised to see them rotated into service on weekends when Cascades ridership is heaviest. We now have orders for 200 new pieces of equipment (plus a few switching locos, I believe) and by the end of the year there will be orders for over 200 more. Of those 400+ pieces of new equipment less than half will replace old equipment and more than half will be for expansion of the fleet.
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