Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Newport News NE Regional Service

[Station Aficionado]

Officials also report that close to 6,500 passengers got on or off at the Norfolk stop in that same time.

Could someone with a better journalistic or internal source clarify the exact benchmarks those numbers represent?

The 11,500 includes passengers who got on/off at RVR, Petersburg, other VA stops.

Thanks; since the NFK trains are (IIRC) extensions of RVR trains, I wanted to double-check that this number included RVR-ALX boardings, which was my initial guess based on the magnitude of the number. An alternate reading of the sentence could have implied a very large ridership gain at Petersburg, which I thought was unlikely, but just plausible enough to be worth checking.

In fact, new reports that I have read have indicated only a handful of riders boarding/alighting at Petersburg.

[ThirdRail7]

Officials also report that close to 6,500 passengers got on or off at the Norfolk stop in that same time.

Could someone with a better journalistic or internal source clarify the exact benchmarks those numbers represent?

The 11,500 includes passengers who got on/off at RVR, Petersburg, other VA stops.

Thanks; since the NFK trains are (IIRC) extensions of RVR trains, I wanted to double-check that this number included RVR-ALX boardings, which was my initial guess based on the magnitude of the number. An alternate reading of the sentence could have implied a very large ridership gain at Petersburg, which I thought was unlikely, but just plausible enough to be worth checking.

In fact, new reports that I have read have indicated only a handful of riders boarding/alighting at Petersburg.

Indeed. To date, PTB is a waste of brake shoes but since you're going right by it, you might as well stop.

[afiggatt]

In fact, new reports that I have read have indicated only a handful of riders boarding/alighting at Petersburg.

No reason to expect much of an increase at Petersburg. It was already getting 4 trains a day stopping there each way with only 22,387 getting on or off in FY2012. Wonder how many of the NFK origin/destination trips are within Virginia? Alexandria is likely to get most of those because of the Metro station there.

[M&Eman]

In fact, new reports that I have read have indicated only a handful of riders boarding/alighting at Petersburg.

No reason to expect much of an increase at Petersburg. It was already getting 4 trains a day stopping there each way with only 22,387 getting on or off in FY2012. Wonder how many of the NFK origin/destination trips are within Virginia? Alexandria is likely to get most of those because of the Metro station there.

I imagine a good proportion of the ridership in Norfolk is getting off at Alexandria and taking the Metro to the Pentagon where they have meetings etc. It is good to see this service on really strong footing already. What infrastructure improvements are needed to add more round trips?

[Jersey_Mike]

If anybody cares here are some photos of the new CSX BX interlocking taken shortly before it was placed in service.

http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -rear.html
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -conn.html
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... +mast.html
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -conn.html

[ThirdRail7]

In fact, new reports that I have read have indicated only a handful of riders boarding/alighting at Petersburg.

No reason to expect much of an increase at Petersburg. It was already getting 4 trains a day stopping there each way with only 22,387 getting on or off in FY2012. Wonder how many of the NFK origin/destination trips are within Virginia? Alexandria is likely to get most of those because of the Metro station there.

I imagine a good proportion of the ridership in Norfolk is getting off at Alexandria and taking the Metro to the Pentagon where they have meetings etc. It is good to see this service on really strong footing already. What infrastructure improvements are needed to add more round trips?

There isn't much intrastate travel coming from NFK or PTB. The vast majority of the riders are through passengers.

[ThirdRail7]

If anybody cares here are some photos of the new CSX BX interlocking taken shortly before it was placed in service.

http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -rear.html
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -conn.html
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... +mast.html
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -conn.html

Are there high speed crossovers on CSX?

[Arlington]

There isn't much intrastate travel coming from NFK or PTB. The vast majority of the riders are through passengers.

That's likely good news for revenues...but bad news (or not much of a win) if they end up over-selling sections that were already selling out? (PHL-NYP?)

[afiggatt]

There isn't much intrastate travel coming from NFK or PTB. The vast majority of the riders are through passengers.

The Norfolk service started just before the holiday travel period which would distort the numbers. The February, March, April numbers should provide a better view of what the trip patterns for Norfolk look like as the service becomes established. In this case, does through passengers include NFK-WAS or just those going north of DC?

[ThirdRail7]

There isn't much intrastate travel coming from NFK or PTB. The vast majority of the riders are through passengers.

The Norfolk service started just before the holiday travel period which would distort the numbers. The February, March, April numbers should provide a better view of what the trip patterns for Norfolk look like as the service becomes established. In this case, does through passengers include NFK-WAS or just those going north of DC?

I included DC. To give you an idea, let's say there are 30 riders boarding at NFK. 14 would travel north of DC, 10 would travel to DC and 6 would travel to points in VA.

[Arlington]

To give you an idea, let's say there are 30 riders boarding at NFK. 14 would travel north of DC, 10 would travel to DC and 6 would travel to points in VA.

That's going to be really great for revenue! Considering that Southwest Flies ORF-BWI, I'm guessing nobody really rides NFK-BWI/BAL either. That leaves the same biggies that power both ridership and revenues on the Lynchburg service, namely PHL and NYP. Seems like a very healthy mix.

[Jersey_Mike]

If anybody cares here are some photos of the new CSX BX interlocking taken shortly before it was placed in service.

http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -rear.html
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -conn.html
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... +mast.html
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -conn.html

Are there high speed crossovers on CSX?

They might be Limited speed, but I don't think that qualifies as "high speed".

[gokeefe]

To give you an idea, let's say there are 30 riders boarding at NFK. 14 would travel north of DC, 10 would travel to DC and 6 would travel to points in VA.

That's going to be really great for revenue! Considering that Southwest Flies ORF-BWI, I'm guessing nobody really rides NFK-BWI/BAL either. That leaves the same biggies that power both ridership and revenues on the Lynchburg service, namely PHL and NYP. Seems like a very healthy mix.

Didn't realize SWA was flying KORF-KBWI.

Very interesting fare comparison:

Amtrak, JAN 30: NFK - BWI, $59; JAN 31: BWI - NFK, $59 = Total Fare $118

Southwest Airlines, JAN 30: KORF - KBWI, $69.90; JAN 31: KBWI - KORF, $69.90 = Total Fare $139.80
(Southwest quotes their fares with taxes and surcharges included)

I'm sure that the SWA fares are lowest bucket and I believe the Amtrak fares are close to if not actually lowest bucket as well.

[gokeefe]

Of course many flying KORF - KBWI would be connecting to onward destinations so this isn't necessarily a competitive segment for Amtrak. On the other hand there are plenty of defense contractors down there, and of course I'm sure there's plenty of traffic between Naval assets in Norfolk and Annapolis.

[Arlington]

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/104/475/Amt ... r-2012.pdf

The Norfolk service had positive contribution margin in its first (partial) month of service!

Ridership was 14,900 vs a budgeted 13,792

on $800,000 in revenue there were $500,000 in costs, showing a surplus of $300,000.