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  • Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1531519  by electricron
 
SouthernRailway wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:34 pm Didn't Amtrak learn the benefits of market differentiation through its Silver Starve experiment?

Low cost sleeper services attracted a lot of customers.

But normal-cost sleeper services also generate significant revenues.

So LD trains should have a range of classes of services, to attract the most customers and revenues:

1. Budget sleeper (no meals included)
2. Normal sleeper (regular meals included)
3. Fancy sleeper (lavish meals and drinks included)

And with some marketing, even more people would ride.
Amtrak's goals with the experiment with the Silver trains were two fold, lower food costs, increase ridership (total for both trains), and increase profits (total for both trains). I'll admit I do not know what the data of the experiment was, but as a casual observer the Star kept two sleeper cars while the Meteor kept three sleeper cars. Amtrak never had to pull one sleeper car from the Meteor to add to the Star. Ridership remain basically the same between the two trains. All that changed for all practical purposes was the higher operating profits on the Star due to the lower food costs. Obviously, the slightly higher ridership on the Star did not match the slightly lower fares. Amtrak has since changed the food service model on the Meteor that saves food service costs - and the Star is now going to the same new model the Meteor is using now.

Bottom line, Amtrak found a way to reduce food service costs that they did not also have to lower fares. That's a win-win situation for Amtrak, although not for its customers.
 #1531520  by JoeG
 
If there is to be a service with lavish meals and drinks, the dining car staff will have to get some extra training. An important part of lavish dining is excellent service. I don't think I ever got that in an Amtrak dining car. Would that kind of service require more staff? I have no idea but if so it would probably wipe out the profits gained from the increased revenue of lavish dining.
 #1531537  by Tadman
 
electricron wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:55 pm...as a casual observer the Star kept two sleeper cars while the Meteor kept three sleeper cars. Amtrak never had to pull one sleeper car from the Meteor to add to the Star. Ridership remain basically the same between the two trains.
Does that have to do with a lack of sleepers? I mean there's got to be a way to find 2-4 spare sleepers, if not lease them from Via in Winter. Winter is via's off season and Silver's peak.
 #1531551  by lordsigma12345
 
The lavish dining and service model could probably pay for itself or make a profit if it operated seasonally on a train like the Zephyr. That would only work if they operated it during the peak times for experiential travelers like the summer but went to more basic service during slower times.
 #1531557  by east point
 
Like the idea of VIA sleepers. However understand they will not clear the 3rd rail of NYP. They certainly will not clear MNRR under running so how to even get them to WASH? They could be cut off car at WASH ? Then you have the problem of the HEP situation of VIA cars.
 #1531574  by Rockingham Racer
 
SouthernRailway wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:34 pm Didn't Amtrak learn the benefits of market differentiation through its Silver Starve experiment?

Low cost sleeper services attracted a lot of customers.

But normal-cost sleeper services also generate significant revenues.

So LD trains should have a range of classes of services, to attract the most customers and revenues:

1. Budget sleeper (no meals included)
2. Normal sleeper (regular meals included)
3. Fancy sleeper (lavish meals and drinks included)

And with some marketing, even more people would ride.
For categories 2 and 3, you're talking "experietial" travel, and Richard Anderson on the whole of it rejects that concept.
 #1531589  by Arlington
 
lordsigma12345 wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:57 am ...operated seasonally on a train like the Zephyr. That would only work if they operated it during the peak times for experiential travelers like the summer but went to more basic service during slower times.
Does Amtrak have work rules that would permit seasonal fluctuations in staff?
 #1531655  by Gilbert B Norman
 
From Hilton Suites Boca Raton---
Arlington wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:23 pm Does Amtrak have work rules that would permit seasonal fluctuations in staff?
Absolutely, Mr. Arlington.

Amtrak management has complete prerogative to assign On Board Service employees. They are, of course, obligated under Agreement to pay any such employee accountable for Amtrak property such as funds or inventory at the "Lead" rste.
 #1531858  by Tadman
 
east point wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:08 pm Like the idea of VIA sleepers. However understand they will not clear the 3rd rail of NYP. They certainly will not clear MNRR under running so how to even get them to WASH? They could be cut off car at WASH ? Then you have the problem of the HEP situation of VIA cars.
It's a good question. Perhaps from Toronto they are sent to WIndsor on the back of a revenue train, then CP transfers them to Detroit, then Chicago via Wolverine. Then Capitol Limited takes them to DC? Kind of a long ride but not the end of the world.
 #1531883  by mtuandrew
 
Tad: more likely a transfer through Sarnia to Port Huron, not Windsor to Detroit, but otherwise that’s the likely route. At a certain point it has to be easier to modify the VIA fleet, or find PV owners willing to rent their sleepers.
 #1531900  by STrRedWolf
 
Trains Magazine's March 2020 issue came out, and on page 15 inside an article on revamping the California Zephyr and Empire Builder trains, conductor Brad Swartzwelter of the CZ and Brian Rosenwald ("now-retired originator of the Coast Starlight's enhancement in the 1990s) offered a few suggestions. Guess which ones match those of the forum.

Their suggestions:
  • Revamp the dining car menu to include lower-priced options to attract coach business and... "pay tribute to the route" with entrees like Rocky Mountain trout.
  • Lower sleeping-car accomidation prices, eliminating the meals-included provision; dining-car meals can then be priced to be more reflective of actual costs...
  • Introduce a train manager responsible for revenue, costs, and service delivery.
  • Reinstate the Service Excellence program to involve and incentivize crews
  • Designate Sightseer Lounge space for sleeping-car passengers during peak travel periods, but add a Cross Country Cafe during those periods for coach passengers.
 #1531909  by bostontrainguy
 
Their suggestions:
  • Revamp the dining car menu to include lower-priced options to attract coach business and... "pay tribute to the route" with entrees like Rocky Mountain trout.
Scared me there for a second. Though it was going to say Rocky Mountain Oysters!
 #1532290  by rohr turbo
 
...Revamp the dining car menu to include lower-priced options to attract coach business and... "pay tribute to the route" with entrees like Rocky Mountain trout.
Back in the 80's Amtrak's CZ did indeed load fresh trout while passing through Colorado and grill it up for dinner. Very good, too.

Everything old is new again.
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