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  • Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1529661  by mtuandrew
 
I can’t see Amtrak restoring full, made-from-scratch dining service to eastern single-level trains. I can see them going to a semi-fresh menu of parcooked entrees and fresh vegetables; even the Amfleet Diner Lite has a capable enough kitchen to serve something approaching full meals.

$1m a pop seems excessive, obviously. I feel that $100k per conversion is possible though, allowing for continued fresh food preparation as well. Cut a hole in the back wall for a cafe window, cover over any appliances in the way, install whatever shelves are needed, and call it done.

Perhaps Amtrak can call in some options from CAF too. It’s worth a shot to see if they can solve their need for new single-level LD food service cars.
 #1529664  by gokeefe
 
While I don't necessarily agree with conversion I don't believe it would cost $1M. The cars are brand new and likely still easy to modify.
 #1529672  by Arlington
 
A $1m conversion would be affordable, though. I'm sure that the right food setup could easily swing a $1m improvement in net operating income in its first year of operations alone. Recall that diners on the Starvation were something like a $5m per year question, so even if it took a fleet of 6 diners to support an LD, you could pay $1m each and be financially ahead essentially in one fiscal year.
 #1529674  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Diverting a bit from Food Service cars, but still within scope for this topic, I think all must accept that the likelihood for an order of bi-level cars to replace the Superliners is not all that great. Even if "Amthink" at present is "the only good LD train is a discontinued LD train", some LD's will outlive the Superliners. Therefore, any cars ordered to replace Superliners will be with the idea that they could be readily convertible for Short Distance service.

Off the head says that sixty Food Service cars to cover all existing LD's, less the twenty five V-II's, means thirty five additional cars. I still think "the Galley" should be center car, which means the starting point is the existing A-I and II.
 #1529682  by mtuandrew
 
Mr. Norman, I’m not sure I follow what “which means the starting point is the existing A-I and II“ means. Do you mean a new car should be patterned after an A-II cafe or diner-lite, or that the new cars should in fact be Amfleets which have undergone a heavy rebuild?

As for your assertion about LD service, I think the future is in bi-level long-distance coaches similar to the Bombardier MLV. For all of its faults (specifically the lack of level-floor passage between cars and the limited overhead space) it provides near-Superliner capacity at Viewliner dimensions. More importantly, it’s also suited to Corridor and Regional use should LDs become a thing of the past. That’s for another thread though - here, the most important part is that sleepers and food service cars would remain single-level for now.
 #1529714  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Stephens, I believe the best configuration for a Food Service car plating meals on board is center car, which is how the existing A-I and II's are configured.

Considering that the A-I's are now older than were the P-70's on A-Day (and assigned to NY-PHL."Clockers") they cannot be rebuilt forever. Therefore, I'm addressing new cars.
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1529724  by lordsigma12345
 
New cars would be nice - but I would predict in this case they're going to work with what they have...they've got these 25 cars (26 if you include the VL1 Diner) which is what the 5 year plan hinted at. At the same time, expect some modifcations to the superliner dining cars that are serving the Capitol and CONO as "single food service car" will probably be the goal there also. If I had to make a prediction, the silver star will probably be the trial for the new "single car concept." While they could modify the existing cafe and diner lite cars and use those like the setup on the Cardinal, they are old and you would then need to procure all need food service cars as part of the Amfleet 2 replacement order if you're going to dispose of the VL2 diners...trying to figure out how to do it with the VL2 diners is probably the way to go... after all the cars cost a lot of taxpayer money. I wouldn't be surprised if they just made it so coach passengers had only one choice - to eat at their seats while the seating in the VL2 remains the "Sleeper Lounge."
 #1529732  by lordsigma12345
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:55 pm Even if "Amthink" at present is "the only good LD train is a discontinued LD train", some LD's will outlive the Superliners.
I don’t necessarily think it is discontinue them all at board meetings. I think Mr. Anderson and company like a few of the long distance products but feel the present setup is unsustainable and while they do want to focus on corridors, I think they see somewhere between 5-10 long distance routes (This range is something Anderson alluded to) depending on how you can break up certain ones into interconnected corridors. 5 is probably their ideal if they can transform a bunch of the current long distance into strings of corridors (like DC-Pittsburgh-Chicago corridors instead of capitol and Albany-Buffalo-Cleveland-Chicago corridors instead of lake shore.) 10 is probably their minimal goal. You do raise a good point about the superliners. Hopefully the results of reauthorization will help inform fleet planning. I will make that the limit of my venture into going off topic however as there are other threads for this type of thing.
 #1529739  by eolesen
 
mtuandrew wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:10 pm As for your assertion about LD service, I think the future is in bi-level long-distance coaches similar to the Bombardier MLV. For all of its faults (specifically the lack of level-floor passage between cars and the limited overhead space) it provides near-Superliner capacity at Viewliner dimensions.
Amtrak gets far more bang for the fleet planning buck if there's a common single level fleet for corridor, mid-haul, and long haul.
 #1529750  by exvalley
 
lordsigma12345 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:17 am I don’t necessarily think it is discontinue them all at board meetings. I think Mr. Anderson and company like a few of the long distance products but feel the present setup is unsustainable and while they do want to focus on corridors, I think they see somewhere between 5-10 long distance routes ...
I tend to agree with this. Anderson sees where the growth is. It's hard to argue that more corridor service is needed. But he also knows the political reality of long distance trains.
 #1529751  by exvalley
 
lordsigma12345 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:17 am5 is probably their ideal if they can transform a bunch of the current long distance into strings of corridors (like DC-Pittsburgh-Chicago corridors instead of capitol and Albany-Buffalo-Cleveland-Chicago corridors instead of lake shore.)
So how would that work if you want to travel from Albany to Chicago, for example? Would you be on one train that travels the whole route or would you have to connect in Buffalo and Cleveland?
 #1529762  by SouthernRailway
 
Despite "flexible dining", I have another LD train trip coming up.

Could anyone confirm that (1) sleeping car passengers may hang out in the "first class lounge" (former dining car) even outside of meal times and (2) sleeping car passengers may purchase drinks in the "first class lounge"?

Thanks.
 #1529763  by ryanch
 
exvalley wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:08 am So how would that work if you want to travel from Albany to Chicago, for example? Would you be on one train that travels the whole route or would you have to connect in Buffalo and Cleveland?
Yes, you'd have to connect.
 #1529766  by exvalley
 
SouthernRailway wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:21 am Despite "flexible dining", I have another LD train trip coming up.

Could anyone confirm that (1) sleeping car passengers may hang out in the "first class lounge" (former dining car) even outside of meal times and (2) sleeping car passengers may purchase drinks in the "first class lounge"?

Thanks.
According to my recent experiences on the Lake Shore Limited, the answer to both of your questions is, "Yes."
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