North Carolina NCDOT-Amtrak Carolinian Service

[drewh]

MetroPark had 362,000 Amtrak boardings in 2006. This puts is at somewhere around #25 on the national system. I hardly think that justifies less service.

BTW - the 2005 numbers presented by Amtrak here, do not match the
2005 state numbers (also presented by Amtrak). They do match the URL 2006 numbers.

All NJ stations handle 1.5 million passemgers, and they are all within a stretch of 50 miles between Trenton and Newark. This busy stretch of railroad and population density can certainly justify a 3rd stop whether it be MetroPark for some trains or Newark Airport.

ROC, had 75,000.
Croton, 38K
Yonkes, 16K.

I dont support eliminating suburban stops on regional trains - they are regional BTW, not expresses. Eliminating them takes away the convenience of the train whose tracks quite frankly go thru my neighborhood. This would be akin to a super highway going through your town but you not being able to get on for 25 miles in either direction.

Whats your thoughts on eliminating Rt 128, BWI airport, or New Carollton? Suburban stops do have service and a purpose - not all business is currently in the cities.

[taoyue]

The 2005 state numbers are clearly wrong. There's just no way that Princeton Junction gets 8 times as much traffic as at the airport, or 3/4 as much traffic as Newark. Looks like someone screwed up a spreadsheet before sending it off to the person who wrote it up. The 2006 and national numbers look more reasonable.

In general, it really doesn't make too much sense to eliminate a stop, especially one with convenient parking. We're trying to get cars off the highways, right?

It may just be a matter of demographics. Metropark may be a much weaker supplier of riders for long-distance trains than for Regionals. For Regionals, many Acela Expresses skip Trenton and stop only at Metropark between Newark and Philadelphia. In contrast, most of the LDs do not (no longer?) stop at Metropark, including the Crescent and the Florida-bound trains.

A cynic may say that Amtrak just wants to make life easier for the conductors and service crew. Prevent seasoned corridor travelers from trying to board a sleeper, move seats between cars, etc. Stuff that the long-distance people don't like to deal with.

[MudLake]

It may just be a matter of demographics. Metropark may be a much weaker supplier of riders for long-distance trains than for Regionals. For Regionals, many Acela Expresses skip Trenton and stop only at Metropark between Newark and Philadelphia. In contrast, most of the LDs do not (no longer?) stop at Metropark, including the Crescent and the Florida-bound trains.

A cynic may say that Amtrak just wants to make life easier for the conductors and service crew. Prevent seasoned corridor travelers from trying to board a sleeper, move seats between cars, etc. Stuff that the long-distance people don't like to deal with.

Or...

It could be an issue related to track congestion. Metropark trains can only stop on Tracks 1 and 4, unlike Newark, EWR, and Trenton.

[palmland]

I have the same problem with the Palmetto. We take it from Florence, SC to visit our son in Morristown, NJ. Requires our daughter in law with an infant to drive into Newark to drop us off or pick us up, or a train change in Trenton.
That is not fun at any time, especially if you have luggage and it is cold and dark.

I am sure operational issues are the reason, but I wonder how the number of Amtrak passengers at metropark compare with Newark or Trenton. Maybe this can be done when expansion of Metropark is complete.

[sixty-six]

I have the same problem with the Palmetto. We take it from Florence, SC to visit our son in Morristown, NJ. Requires our daughter in law with an infant to drive into Newark to drop us off or pick us up, or a train change in Trenton.
That is not fun at any time, especially if you have luggage and it is cold and dark.

I am sure operational issues are the reason, but I wonder how the number of Amtrak passengers at metropark compare with Newark or Trenton. Maybe this can be done when expansion of Metropark is complete.

Have you considered taking a NJ Transit Morris and Essex line train to Morristown?

[drewh]

The 2005 state numbers are clearly wrong. There's just no way that Princeton Junction gets 8 times as much traffic as at the airport, or 3/4 as much traffic as Newark. Looks like someone screwed up a spreadsheet before sending it off to the person who wrote it up. The 2006 and national numbers look more reasonable.

The 2005 state numbers are accurate because they include the NJT monthly pass holders that rode Clockers. What is clearly wrong are the national stats that say 2005 above them, the numbers match to the 2006 NJ state numbers. Clockers did not run in 2006. Their numbers greatly increased the Amtrak ridership figures for TRE, PJC, NB, and NWK. In fact PJC was the 13th busiest station on the national Amtrak system in 2005.

It could be an issue related to track congestion. Metropark trains can only stop on Tracks 1 and 4, unlike Newark, EWR, and Trenton.

I dont remember the track numbering at Trenton, but Amtrak only uses 2 tracks of the 4 that platform on the 2 islands. There are 2 thru running tracks that do not platform, so the same issues here as at MetroPark.

Have you considered taking a NJ Transit Morris and Essex line train to Morristown?

Your connection spot would be at NY Penn. More than feasible. Or change at WAS or PHL for a Regional that will stop at MetroPark.

[MudLake]

It could be an issue related to track congestion. Metropark trains can only stop on Tracks 1 and 4, unlike Newark, EWR, and Trenton.

I dont remember the track numbering at Trenton, but Amtrak only uses 2 tracks of the 4 that platform on the 2 islands. There are 2 thru running tracks that do not platform, so the same issues here as at MetroPark.

No, it's not really the same issue. At Metropark, Amtrak has to use what really amounts to NJ Transit's platforms. If I recall correctly, there are four tracks that trains can stop on in Trenton plus the two through tracks.

[F40]

From west to east, the track numbering at Trenton is Track 5 (used by SEPTA and NJT), Track 4 (Used by Amtrak south/westbounds and NJT), the two center bypass tracks, Track 1 (used by north/eastbound Amtrak), Track 2 (used by NJT to sit and wait for departures), and a low platform track on Track 3. I am not sure if SEPTA gets any of its equipment onto Track 2.

The above information is referenced by http://www.stationreporter.net/necl.htm and some experience traversing through the station.

If it were not for the safe, long-term parking, the Midtown Direct from Morristown to NYP would be the best bet, then the Carolinian or Regional from there.[/url]

[drewh]

No, it's not really the same issue. At Metropark, Amtrak has to use what really amounts to NJ Transit's platforms. If I recall correctly, there are four tracks that trains can stop on in Trenton plus the two through tracks.

Actually I was referring to the fact of crossover being required though not really sure that is an accurate description any more after reading about the track layout/numbering above at TRE. I've also been running with the assumption that we were talking about weekend service - so NJT is far less of an issue, not that I ever think Amtrak delays their trains for NJT.

Thanks for that track description. Trenton used to be my home station when I lived across the river in Yardley, but I couldn't remember the track numbering. I thought it was 5&4 for the west island, and 1&2 for the east, but was then confused as to what the numbering on the center thru tracks were. Also thought the low level was track A instead of 3.

Is track 3 ever used now by NJT, its been a while since I lived here?

[sixty-six]

According to the amtrak.com's Carolinian makes a stop at Newark Penn.

The original poster could either follow the suggestions to transfer to a NJT MidTOWN Direct train to Morristown, or could disembark in Newark Penn, take the Newark Light Rail to Newark Broad Street, and board the next Morristown-bound train.

I understand this sounds like a lot, but if skitraindance is concerned about the daughter-in-law making the trek to Newark, this could be a feasible alternative.

[drewh]

NY Penn is easier and safer to make this transfer, and may not actually add much if anything to the travel time over doing it at NWK.

Again, if your daughter-in-law can more easily make MetroPark, then change to an Amtrak Regional NEC train at WAS or PHL - plenty safe to do at both, and red caps available to help with luggage

[sixty-six]

NY Penn is easier and safer to make this transfer, and may not actually add much if anything to the travel time over doing it at NWK.

Again, if your daughter-in-law can more easily make MetroPark, then change to an Amtrak Regional NEC train at WAS or PHL - plenty safe to do at both, and red caps available to help with luggage

Depending on the time, one may have to wait longer for a MidTOWN Direct train at NY than making the xfer at Newark Penn. There are a few windows in the day when trains from Hoboken outweigh those from NY.

Another thing to weigh, given the concerns over luggage skitraindance brought up, is the availabilty and the mood of conductors onboard Regionals who will help passengers with luggage. I've seen many people on Regionals struggle with their luggage, either being passed by a TC or being shrugged off one who couldnt be bothered. Maybe my experience is out of the norm.

Newark, along with New York, has baggage service, elevators from platforms, etc. The Newark Light Rail trip is only 3 miles, the LRVs have wide, low level floors, and 99% of conductors/TCs on the NJT Hoboken Division will help a struggling passenger in loading baggage (they tend to be nicer than most Newark Division crews).

While I do understand drewh's point and am in no way refuting it, New York is not the de facto way to switch from Amtrak to NJT. PSCC usually holds trains at BERGEN when theres traffic in the tunnels, there are sometimes problems (albeit rare) with the ALPs when changing voltages coming off the NEC at SWIFT, and MidTOWN Direct trains are usually packed to the point of SRO.

I believe Morristown via Newark Broad via Newark Penn is a quicker, direct route, but along with New York, are both viable alternatives to a Regional train to Metropark.

[Jishnu]

I believe Morristown via Newark Broad via Newark Penn is a quicker, direct route, but along with New York, are both viable alternatives to a Regional train to Metropark.

If you are traveling with a suitcase or two, I don't think the Newark Penn - NLR - Newark Broad St. is really a viable alternative, unless you are in particularly good physical shape or have a masochistic streak. Things will improve a bit after the new elevators are put in service at Newark Broad St.

Also, I'd at least feel somewhat antsy trying to do the Newark Penn - NLR - Newark Broad St. shuffle after arriving on a 2 hr late Carolinian, not an uncommon occurance, unfortunately.

[palmland]

I have the same problem with the Palmetto. We take it from Florence, SC to visit our son in Morristown, NJ. Requires our daughter in law with an infant to drive into Newark to drop us off or pick us up, or a train change in Trenton.
That is not fun at any time, especially if you have luggage and it is cold and dark.

I am sure operational issues are the reason, but I wonder how the number of Amtrak passengers at metropark compare with Newark or Trenton. Maybe this can be done when expansion of Metropark is complete.

Have you considered taking a NJ Transit Morris and Essex line train to Morristown?

We have done this when we stop over enroute (usually Richmond area). Way too early in the morning or late at night to do it on the Palmetto.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Also, I'd at least feel somewhat antsy trying to do the Newark Penn - NLR - Newark Broad St. shuffle after arriving on a 2 hr late Carolinian, not an uncommon occurance, unfortunately.

For the benefit of those of us here with "whiskers' (you know what that term means Mr Jishnu; you evidently are in railroad service), I presume the above translates to "Penn Station City Subway DL&W station".