mtuandrew wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:10 pmRight you are.Rockingham Racer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:46 pmIt would have to be a different route, but it's doable. Boston / NYP / Pit / Chicago.Why would it have to go via the Broadway route? The Empire Connection dumps trains into the western end of Penn Station, pointed toward Sunnyside Yard. It would only take an engine change to go CHI - BUF - ALB - NYP - NHV - BOS.
All that is beyond Mr. Norman’s proposed Thruway.
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I mean, not that I’m against a Broadway Limited 
and extending it to Boston would elegantly give the Northeast a somewhat more practical sleeper train.
Speaking of the Broadway and Lake Shore routes, are there any Thruways out of Cleveland to Akron and Canton? I don’t see them reflected on this Amtrak system map.
and extending it to Boston would elegantly give the Northeast a somewhat more practical sleeper train.Speaking of the Broadway and Lake Shore routes, are there any Thruways out of Cleveland to Akron and Canton? I don’t see them reflected on this Amtrak system map.
Since the North Coast Hiawatha chatter refuses to die I will post the following:
Thruway Alternatives to Amtrak Route Restorations:
1. North Coast Hiawatha: With a previously estimated price tag north of $1 Billion this proposal is the poster child for a service restoration that should be done by bus. A Thruway connection to the Empire Builder would meet the essential needs for travel and also support use of the existing route through Montana.
2. Pioneer: Not far behind in costs to the "NCH" but with far less attention or political support. This route should never return to the rails. Bus service would be adequate and economical.
3. National Limited: The rails are gone at key points and so is much of the previous population. This corridor has completely insufficient travel demand and with one or two notable exceptions largely skirts major population centers. Bus service would be adequate, economical and could strengthen the case for additional frequencies on existing corridors.
4. Floridian: Same problem as ever. The "dark heart" of the Penn Central in Indiana makes the return of this route utterly pointless. Thruway service to a new Amtrak route into Florida from Nashville could be a meaningful contribution to a new corridor.
Let's just call these the "Fallen Four". Four major routes each with over 8 years of operations by Amtrak that absolutely positively are never going to return. They are either too long, too expensive, or too desolate to operate and in some cases they are all three.
These routes have no future and may someday be joined by the Sunset Limited. Sad though this truth may be it is simply a reality of the jet age which even in the harsh reality of COVID-19 is not about to end anytime soon. There will be no "Silver Streak" and certainly no green Pullmans or Kodachrome streamliners coming around the bend for these routes ever again.
A comfortable long distance coachliner is not out of the question and could do a great deal of good.
Thruway Alternatives to Amtrak Route Restorations:
1. North Coast Hiawatha: With a previously estimated price tag north of $1 Billion this proposal is the poster child for a service restoration that should be done by bus. A Thruway connection to the Empire Builder would meet the essential needs for travel and also support use of the existing route through Montana.
2. Pioneer: Not far behind in costs to the "NCH" but with far less attention or political support. This route should never return to the rails. Bus service would be adequate and economical.
3. National Limited: The rails are gone at key points and so is much of the previous population. This corridor has completely insufficient travel demand and with one or two notable exceptions largely skirts major population centers. Bus service would be adequate, economical and could strengthen the case for additional frequencies on existing corridors.
4. Floridian: Same problem as ever. The "dark heart" of the Penn Central in Indiana makes the return of this route utterly pointless. Thruway service to a new Amtrak route into Florida from Nashville could be a meaningful contribution to a new corridor.
Let's just call these the "Fallen Four". Four major routes each with over 8 years of operations by Amtrak that absolutely positively are never going to return. They are either too long, too expensive, or too desolate to operate and in some cases they are all three.
These routes have no future and may someday be joined by the Sunset Limited. Sad though this truth may be it is simply a reality of the jet age which even in the harsh reality of COVID-19 is not about to end anytime soon. There will be no "Silver Streak" and certainly no green Pullmans or Kodachrome streamliners coming around the bend for these routes ever again.
A comfortable long distance coachliner is not out of the question and could do a great deal of good.
gokeefe
Are we talking dedicated Amtrak bus , or Greyhound codeshare ? . While the latter is better than nothing, I doubt those pushing for a train will be happy. Amtrak California style buses may be more acceptable.
But I agree, and have said many times before , the only way to get a decent network in the West is by Thruway bus.
But I agree, and have said many times before , the only way to get a decent network in the West is by Thruway bus.
Moderator worldwide railfan , Rail travel & trip reports
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
Mentioned this in the NCH thread, but there’s a Jefferson Lines route along I-94/90 between Fargo and Butte, then north to Whitefish. It ought to be thru-ticketed with Amtrak.
Greyhound may be running on empty. The parent company has been trying to sell it for about a year, with no takers.
Depending on where bus ridership winds up during this health panic, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shut down entirely.
Regional bus operators like Jefferson and Lamers seem to be OK for now, but they too are going to take a hit if people start sheltering in place for a couple weeks.
Depending on where bus ridership winds up during this health panic, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shut down entirely.
Regional bus operators like Jefferson and Lamers seem to be OK for now, but they too are going to take a hit if people start sheltering in place for a couple weeks.
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Owner/operator of TrainSim.com (the internet's largest train simulation community)
Owner/operator of TrainSim.com (the internet's largest train simulation community)
If the travel slump continues, it’s a good opportunity for Amtrak to go halvesies on some of the trunk Greyhound routes, as a public partner which owns some equity in the Hound while another entity owns the remainder.
George mentioned four good rail-to-bus replacements and I’ll add a fifth that made it to Amtrak and a sixth which didn’t: the Texas Chief and the Twin Star Rocket.
George mentioned four good rail-to-bus replacements and I’ll add a fifth that made it to Amtrak and a sixth which didn’t: the Texas Chief and the Twin Star Rocket.
Amtrak
David Benton wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:23 pmAre we talking dedicated Amtrak bus , or Greyhound codeshare ?I think dedicated is the only way to go. You can't have people missing their connection and then having to wait for the next train which in the middle of a storm might come "God only knows when".
gokeefe