Amtrak's Thruway Bus Connections

[ExCon90]

In California, Amtrak established many connecting bus routes where there had been no recent train service, but that was done with considerable support from the California Department of Transportation; I imagine local support in any given area would have a lot to do with what bus routes were established.

[mtuandrew]

Sometimes it seems to have to do with the providers Amtrak chooses for Thruway service. In the upper Midwest, Amtrak often works with Jefferson Lines and overlays their service on the existing Jefferson Trailways service, but it looks like you can only interline by buying through Amtrak.

There are a few surprising omissions - there's no Thruway service to:
-Des Moines from Ottumwa (I could have sworn there was)
-Chattanooga from Atlanta, or anywhere within Georgia for that matter
-Huntington, WV from either Pittsburgh or Charleston, WV
-Phoenix from Maricopa (but there is a Thruway from Flagstaff, ironically)
-Asheville from High Point via Winston-Salem (which does have a Thruway)
-the Branson, MO cluster from Kansas City, MO
-nearly anywhere in the NY Southern Tier, except Jamestown to Buffalo.

I was quite surprised to see extensive Thruway service in Wyoming though, as well as lower Michigan, Idaho and western Oregon, and the North Carolina coast.

[east point]

Thruway service is limited at ATL due to parking bus(s) beside station limits adjacent 2 way traffic to less than 10 feet.

[Backshophoss]

While not listed in the timetable,there is a bus to/from Phoenix Greyhound terminal that meets # 1 and # 2 at Maricopa.
The details might be at the ticket office at Maricopa.

[gokeefe]

Reposted from the Empire Service thread:

New connecting Thruway service provided by Trailways of New York announced:

HURLEY, N.Y., Aug. 4, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Amtrak customers now have a new option to reach destinations across New York State not accessible by rail, and Trailways of New York customers have gained access to destinations throughout the continent. Beginning today, customers are now able to enjoy connecting service at Amtrak stations in Rochester, NY, Syracuse, NY, Utica, NY, and Saratoga Springs, NY, allowing passengers to continue on to cities such as Cooperstown, Ithaca, Cortland, Glens Falls, Oneonta, and Lake George.

I've noticed over the past four or five years that it seems the Thruway network is seeing some significant growth in route structure (which seems to imply ridership growth as well). Good news for the long and middle distance services that benefit from the guaranteed feeder connection.

[David Benton]

Its a way to add capacity and ridership quickly and cheaply.
However, Checking some of the Narp station ridership stats , I was a bit surprised by some of the fairly low ridership numbers on some stations I checked .

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Phoenix-Maricopa has recently been added:

https://media.amtrak.com/2017/04/new-am ... nix-tempe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/proj ... 031118.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Problem is one of the buses leaves Phoenix 3:15/3:45am!

[jonnhrr]

I notice that the Amtrak Downeaster schedule now lists the Concord Coach service from Portland to Bangor/Orono and Augusta as Thruway service.

One thing they should add as Thruway is the service from Portland to Auburn / Lewiston (Maine's second largest urban area, Lewiston only served when Bates College is in session). Seems like they are missing an opportunity here. Concord Coach only just added this service in June 2017 so maybe they haven't caught up with this yet.

Jon

[gokeefe]

Quite possibly. The other routes you mention have actually been part of the Thruway service for quite some time now. Also worth noting that the coastal bus line up Route 1 to Bangor is included as well. If you search for some of these stations on Amtrak.com they will in fact come up.

[orulz]

Thruway service from Asheville to Salisbury, NC is back on the table again.

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/new ... 914216002/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This service has been promised for a very long time, but always pulled back at the last minute for some reason or another. Meanwhile, the idea of thruway connections in Eastern NC went from proposal to reality in no time. The two routes in eastern NC have decent, but not amazing, ridership. Wilson-Greenville-New Bern-Havelock-Morehead City averages 20 passengers per day, while Wilson-Goldsboro-Kinston-Jacksonville-Wilmington averages 30. Politically, the coastal plain in eastern NC has always had more clout than the mountains in the west.

An Amtrak study predicts thruway ridership to Asheville of 2,100 per year, which is a pitiful number amounting to less than 6 per day. However, an NCDOT study predicts 13,000 per year, averaging to 35 per day, which would be in line with the ENC services above which are generally considered a success.

I live in Cary and my parents live in Asheville, and they have expressed that they would frequently use this service when they visit, which usually works out to about monthly; I have to imagine that there are quite a few other people who would do the same, or do the reverse for a fun visit to Asheville. Having a good stop location in Asheville is really important. The proposed spot I've heard about is along the tracks, near Biltmore Village, which is okay... but if you're going to do this with a bus, and given that few think actual passenger trains will ever be practical, you might as well take advantage of the fact that you don't have to stay close to the rails, and put the stop at the transit center downtown.

[mtuandrew]

Re: Biltmore vs Downtown, why not both?

[Arborwayfan]

How many Thruway buses are matched to particular trains' and run as guaranteed connections (that is, arrive relatively short time before departure and leave right after arrival, waiting for the train if it is late)? The one Thruway bus I have looked at often -- whenever I forget -- is Champaign-Normal-Peoria-Galesburg. Champaign-Galesburg via some appropriate interstate highway route. The CONO goes through eastern Illinois in the wee hours and leaves around a five hour layover in Chicago. The Saluki arrives in Chicago just a little too late for a guaranteed connection to the CZ. A Thruway on the third leg of triangle could easily get passengers in CHM after noon and take them Galesburg in time to board the CZ. But I think the Thruway leaves quite early in the day and leaves hours and hours to wait in Galesburg. Maybe it's timed to meet a different train in Galesburg, or maybe it's just a random link the bus company would have run anyway.

What I am saying is this: Some Thruway buses are really just random bus routes for which you can buy a through ticket. That's fine, but it's not that much of a special product. How many are coordinated to extend the convenient reach of particular trains? Does it make any sense to run buses like that?

[electricron]

How many Thruway buses are matched to particular trains' and run as guaranteed connections (that is, arrive relatively short time before departure and leave right after arrival, waiting for the train if it is late)? The one Thruway bus I have looked at often -- whenever I forget -- is Champaign-Normal-Peoria-Galesburg. Champaign-Galesburg via some appropriate interstate highway route. The CONO goes through eastern Illinois in the wee hours and leaves around a five hour layover in Chicago. The Saluki arrives in Chicago just a little too late for a guaranteed connection to the CZ. A Thruway on the third leg of triangle could easily get passengers in CHM after noon and take them Galesburg in time to board the CZ. But I think the Thruway leaves quite early in the day and leaves hours and hours to wait in Galesburg. Maybe it's timed to meet a different train in Galesburg, or maybe it's just a random link the bus company would have run anyway.

What I am saying is this: Some Thruway buses are really just random bus routes for which you can buy a through ticket. That's fine, but it's not that much of a special product. How many are coordinated to extend the convenient reach of particular trains? Does it make any sense to run buses like that?

There's too many to list all guaranteed connections.
But I'll list a few that extend particular trains. Texas Eagle's connection Longview to Houston. Longview's ridership is high compared to other cities its same size - the reason why is that bus. This bus replaced splitting the Texas Eagle in Dallas and running a train to Houston.
San Jacquin's extension by bus from Bakersfield to Los Angeles. The existing rail route navigates two mountain passes which are very slow because of congestion and thecurvature of the route.

[njtmnrrbuff]

It would be great if someday, there was high speed rail from the Bay Area to Los Angeles so that way, people continuing their journey from BFD to LA and beyond wouldn't have to worry about switching to a bus. Yes, the line from BFD through Tehachapi, Mojave, and Lancaster would probably take close to double the amount of time on an Amtrak train over the thruway buses from BFD to LA.

I believe that in NY State, there are Thruway bus connections from the Empire Corridor but multiple ones of go a bit far south of an Amtrak station. Cortland is 50 minutes driving time from Syracuse Station and Ithaca is 1 hour and 10 minutes. In general, many people traveling from the NYC metropolitan area to Ithaca will drive or either take the bus.

It would be nice to see Thruway bus connections from Albany-Rensselaer Station and Hudson Station to the Berkshires. From ALB, there could be a bus running to Williamstown and N. Adams. There could be another one running from Hudson to Great Barrington, Stockbridge, Lee, and Pittsfield.

I would like to see a Thruway bus run from Providence Station serving Fall River, New Bedford, and the Cape(at least, run as far as Hyannis).

[mtuandrew]

Ideally, Amtrak and main-line bus companies* (Greyhound, Indian Trailways, Peter Pan, etc) would be able to through-ticket from any destination served by any system via one point of purchase across all their systems. Where necessary, that could even include a ride-share on Lyft (Amtrak’s official partner.) It would not go against the national Amtrak prohibition on selling point-to-point bus tickets, because in such a transaction Amtrak simply wouldn’t participate. This leverages the regional reach of buses to where rails don’t go, and the long-haul relative efficiency and definite comfort of Amtrak. Where there is route competition like Boston-Portland, the consumer gets to choose the fare, speed, or schedule that works for them.

Of course, this would potentially open Amtrak to criticism of its timeliness (which it deserves) and its utility over short distances (which it does not deserve.) Done correctly with a favorable rate division, it would also breathe life into long-distance rail routes that bus companies don’t make as much money running.

* until (unless) Amtrak offers its own low-cost service, I recommend against through-ticketing with Megabus and Bolt Bus, let alone any “Chinatown” discount lines. It’s an entirely different level of service and should not be conjoined, because it cheapens Amtrak’s brand.