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  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #811927  by Suburban Station
 
j653 wrote:PA just received federal funding to do just that -- remove the remaining grade crossings. Once that happens, what's the next obvious speed restriction besides curvature? Catenary?
I've heard, though it's not related to top speed, that the Keystone tracks into 30th are dark, so signaling there would increase trip time. It seems like the whoel trip from the station to overbrook is pretty slow. regarding 125 mph, I know they applied to replace the Paoli substation in order to eventually run 125 mph. they also applied for a third track to atglen reducing overtake issues. (sadly, PA's was one of the few actual high speed applications and it didn't get funded)

MOS-just interested in what areas. I assume that the run now that's 110 (park to Lancaster) would be one, but are there any others? could Paoli to Park run 125? Harrisburg-LNC have any stretches?
 #811938  by ExCon90
 
The Keystone tracks into 30th St. Lower Level (the 36th St. Connection) have been double track with Rule 261 since PRR days, so signaling isn't the problem. The signaling problem would be that every diverging route means that Automatic Speed Control holds the train to 45 mph in approach to it, so in the territory east of Overbrook there wouldn't be much point in having a higher track speed on stretches in approach to a divergence at an interlocking.
 #812244  by Jersey_Mike
 
Just took a ride on the HBG line and I got a nice vestibule ride on T-42 eastbound. It appears that the legacy of TBS LEAMAN will live on as Amtrak has opted to retain the Low Speed Turnouts that were rebuilt when the line got new concrete ties. You heard me right, LOW speed turnouts. The eastbound distant signals are up at Irishtown (which is great news for that railfan hotspot) and trans crossing over at LEAMAN will get an Approach Slow followed by a Slow Approach at LEAMAN for the 15mph turnouts. Cab signals will then take over as trains proceed on their new track.

The turnouts at LEAMAN have a single point machine with a spring frog and follow the alignment of the original hand operated crossovers that had been in place since PRR days. When I first reviewed the photos I thought that Amtrak was going to possibly install new 60mph HST's there as the single / on the lower head is used for that configuration. However the lower / on the distants was most puzzling until I realized I was giving Amtrak way to much credit and the signals at LEAMAN would give Slow Approach instead of Cab Speed and Medium Approach.

Anyway catching an Approach Slow on the new automatics at Irishtown will be the photographic feather in the cap so to speak.
 #812287  by MattW
 
I'm curious if 125mph is the ultimate limit? I assume catenary is the main problem at that point needing the constant tension stuff rather than the fixed stuff in place now. Can the trains even do beyond 125mph? I'm guessing that since the Regionals run in the same territory that the Acelas run 150mph the answer is no? When the Acela 1s are retired from their current service, would/could they be put on Keystone service at a higher speed than 125mph?
 #812290  by afiggatt
 
Suburban Station wrote: regarding 125 mph, I know they applied to replace the Paoli substation in order to eventually run 125 mph. they also applied for a third track to atglen reducing overtake issues. (sadly, PA's was one of the few actual high speed applications and it didn't get funded)

MOS-just interested in what areas. I assume that the run now that's 110 (park to Lancaster) would be one, but are there any others? could Paoli to Park run 125? Harrisburg-LNC have any stretches?
PA will have another shot at getting funding for improving the Keystone East corridor. The applications for the $2.5 billion of FY2010 HSR funds are to be submitted by July and the awards to be announced in October. The states have to provide 20% of the funds this time, so that is going to affect how much PA asks for. The NEC and the main feeder corridors to the NEC did not get much of the $8 billion. Now that the NEC Infrastructure Master Plan has been released, the NEC and several of the feeder corridors such as the Eastern Keystone and the DC to Richmond line might be in line for a fair size piece of the $2.5 billion. Several hundred million each for PA and VA and $500 million or more for actual improvements for the NEC would help speed up those lines.
 #812291  by BuddSilverliner269
 
Mike, just bear with me as I try to get my point across easily. I have seen pictures of Leaman interlocking and I thought that they would be good for more then 15 mph. Although I'm slowly making my way on qualifying the line, that stretch of track is still signalled for rule 251 and that is the reason why you would get the slow approach. Id say that this is a temporary speed until the signals get upgraded. If a train were to crossover and then run DCS, you would never get a favorable signal going into dcs. You would always get something slow like stop and proceed, restricting, slow approach or even a rule 241.
 #812836  by Jersey_Mike
 
They wouldn't have installed distants at Irishtown capable of displaying Approach Slow if the crossovers were eventually to be Medium or Limited speed. Also the signals for westward movements into what will be 562 territory can only display Slow Approach. When Amtrak installed new turnouts at TBS Leaman 5 or so years ago they kept the same alignment of the slow speed turnouts already in place at the TBS as a cost saving measure. It appears that the need to cross trains over there at 45 mph wasn't seen as a huge necessity. The new turnouts have a single point machine and spring frogs instead of two point machines and an MPF used in the 45mph crossovers so they are clearly designed for a lower speed..
 #813106  by Suburban Station
 
MattW wrote:I'm curious if 125mph is the ultimate limit? I assume catenary is the main problem at that point needing the constant tension stuff rather than the fixed stuff in place now. Can the trains even do beyond 125mph? I'm guessing that since the Regionals run in the same territory that the Acelas run 150mph the answer is no? When the Acela 1s are retired from their current service, would/could they be put on Keystone service at a higher speed than 125mph?
at some point the corridor will need new equipment anyway, hopefully the track is in such a condition we can talk about the pros and cons of tilt on the line. to that end, PA better get busy at least upgrading the signaling and funding the interlocking replacements in SEPTA territory so we're only looking at adding back the third track to park and replacing substations. I'd guess that 150 would be appropriate once they know the plan west of Harrisburg but 125-135 is probably just fine for Keystone east (without upgraded service west to pittsburgh) and you're better off looking at expanding service elsewhere...of course, if Amtrak is looking for a home for the Acela equipment as they want, perhaps, want to purchase new, larger sets it's worth investigating just how much you can get out of them.

I remain unclear, from the comments above, both whether the turnouts can or can't handle higher speeds with different signaling. and what kind of time savings are we talking about here, a minute? (also, seems like an odd cost savings since if the train has to slow down and speed up, then it consumes more power...thus you'd be saving a dollar when you built it, but losing every year when you pay the utilities...of course, IF the train is already going 15 mph and it is not required to slow, then it really would be a cost savings issues I guess, though if it costs a minute, I'm sure that minute is worth something, and when you add up all the cost savings and they total x minutes, you may really have lost something)
 #813629  by BuddSilverliner269
 
Jersey_Mike wrote:They wouldn't have installed distants at Irishtown capable of displaying Approach Slow if the crossovers were eventually to be Medium or Limited speed. Also the signals for westward movements into what will be 562 territory can only display Slow Approach. When Amtrak installed new turnouts at TBS Leaman 5 or so years ago they kept the same alignment of the slow speed turnouts already in place at the TBS as a cost saving measure. It appears that the need to cross trains over there at 45 mph wasn't seen as a huge necessity. The new turnouts have a single point machine and spring frogs instead of two point machines and an MPF used in the 45mph crossovers so they are clearly designed for a lower speed..
Mike good point. I posted that I as I was just getting up. I only took into my account a crossover move from say going from track 1 to track 4 going east which would cross you onto a DCS move. It appears odd that Amtrak would rebuild crossovers for a 15mph move(although when I viewed the interlocking I thought they could be good for 45) . This definately sounds like a Septa move to me. Only Septa could rebuild an interlocking slower then before.
 #813778  by Jersey_Mike
 
Only Septa could rebuild an interlocking slower then before.
Amtrak rebuilt Leaman to the same alignment as the PRR's original hand operated TBS crossovers which were intended for 15mph operation.
Are the present crossovers between Overbrook and Thorn #15's or #20's?
Most are #15 with Bryn Mawr having #20 for movements between tracks (1 and 2) and (3 and 4)
 #820218  by Lackawanna565
 
The new signals at Leaman Interlocking and Irishtown Road are now activated. Some work has to be done on the west side of Leaman Interlocking. The clear to the next interlocking lights are not in place.
Here is video footage I shot last Tuesday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTFkI3S1zUU
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