Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

[BostonUrbEx]

They must plan out the equipment rotations very far in advance then, to avoid booking bikes and then assigning a set without any cabbage car. I didn't realize it was such a tight ship. Meanwhile, Keolis is often plotting out the equipment rotation on the fly.

[Jeff Smith]

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!! BostonUrbEx had the first post on Page 600! Sorry, it's an honorary thing, nothing tangible awarded LOL.

[Jeff Smith]

To be honest, I did a title search; I could probably make this thread 700 pages and 10000 posts if I merge in general DE threads (I usually like to leave specific question threads separate). Had 111 hits on a title search.

[MEC407]

Where does that rank the Downeaster relative to the number of pages/threads for other Amtrak trains?

[ExCon90]

Don't know about other Amtrak trains, but I guess it leaves Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration in the dust ...

[Gilbert B Norman]

Here are the "stats", at this moment, for Lackawanna Cutoff:

5529 Replies
1335890 Views

Just as well - and nevermind I started it figuring it would be a, tops, ten posting "asked and answered".

But the Downeaster has been amongst the most successful, if not THE most successful, of Amtrak-era "startups", this topic deserves to be "number one".

[gokeefe]

They must plan out the equipment rotations very far in advance then, to avoid booking bikes and then assigning a set without any cabbage car. I didn't realize it was such a tight ship. Meanwhile, Keolis is often plotting out the equipment rotation on the fly.

Yes, it most definitely is "tight". At any given time they usually have only one spare cafe, one spare coach and one spare engine on property. The rest are out on the route (3 cabbages, 3 engines, 3 cafes and 10 coaches). Two trainsets run as "four car trains" (3 coaches plus 1 cafe) and one runs as a "five car train" (4 coaches plus 1 cafe).

So total count on property at any given time would be 3 cabbages, 4 engines, 4 cafes and 11 coaches. Pretty respectable fleet for just one route.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[The EGE]

But the Downeaster has been amongst the most successful, if not THE most successful, of Amtrak-era "startups", this topic deserves to be "number one".

For routes started by Amtrak (ie were not run with corridor service on A-day) that have more than one daily RT, we have:
Illinois Zephyr (1971), 2 RT
Illini (1973), 2 RT
San Joaquins (1974), 7 RT
Missouri River Runner (1977), 2 RT
Capitol Corridor (1991), 15 RT
Piedmont (1995), 3 RT + Carolinian
Downeaster (2001), 5 RT
Valley Flyer (2019), 2 RT + Vermonter

What is now the Cascades had 2 Portland-Seattle RT plus the Starlight on A-Day; Eugene service was added in 1994 and Vancouver in 1995. (Both had been unsuccessfully tried before). Wolverine Service and the Pacific Surfliner have both been extended since A-Day; the latter notably has gone from 3 RT to 13 RT.

[electricron]

Latest ridership data from 2019 - should any 2020 ridership data ever be used now or in the future for comparison purposes? No.
1) Pacific Surfliner 2,541,127 passengers
2) Capital Corridor 1,766,982 passengers
3) Keystone Service 1,564,015 passengers
4) San Jaoquins 1,059,174 passengers
5) Hiawatha 874,160 passengers
6) Cascades 817,944 passengers
7) Lincoln Service 620,546 passengers
8) Downeaster 552,460 passengers

Northeast corridor services and Acela Express services were not included because they are not supported financially by states, never-the-less one could argue that Acela Express service commenced in 2001 is by far the best "new" services Amtrak has ever started.
Acela Express 3,537,065 passengers

Sorry Gilbert B Norman, the Downeaster is no where near being the best.

[Rockingham Racer]

I am surprised the Empire Corridor is not on the list.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Sorry Gilbert B Norman, the Downeaster is no where near being the best.

Ron, you are quite correct there are other "Corridors" with ridership exceeding Downeaster "by leaps and bounds".

But any you note had passenger service both on A-Day Eve and on A-Day. The B&M was "out" of the intercity markets during the '60's, so the Downeaster represents a "startup" in every sense of the word.

That an outside contractor can offer on-board Food & Beverage "turnkey" - and with Non-Agreement staff, is evidence enough that this was "new" service.

But finally, I don't wish to take away from how Local passenger agencies have sparked the development of passenger service along the West Coast, and to some lesser extent here in the Midwest. That Amtrak themselves has turned passenger trains in the Northeast from the "means of last resort" to "the preferred mode" - and priced accordingly - is also commendable.

[MEC407]

1) Pacific Surfliner 2,541,127 passengers
2) Capital Corridor 1,766,982 passengers
3) Keystone Service 1,564,015 passengers
4) San Jaoquins 1,059,174 passengers
5) Hiawatha 874,160 passengers
6) Cascades 817,944 passengers
7) Lincoln Service 620,546 passengers
8) Downeaster 552,460 passengers

If anyone is feeling ambitious, let's see how the ridership for those trains looks as a percentage of population of the areas served by those trains. I think that would be an interesting and more useful measure of success than just the raw passenger numbers.

[conductorchris]

In terms only of total numbers (and by a number of other criteria), the Capital Corridor does best. It was not running in 1971. Sure, the City of San Francisco and Coast Starlight were running, but they did not serve the Capital Corridor market in any meaningful way. '
Christopher

[MEC407]

1) Pacific Surfliner 2,541,127 passengers
2) Capital Corridor 1,766,982 passengers
3) Keystone Service 1,564,015 passengers
4) San Jaoquins 1,059,174 passengers
5) Hiawatha 874,160 passengers
6) Cascades 817,944 passengers
7) Lincoln Service 620,546 passengers
8) Downeaster 552,460 passengers

If anyone is feeling ambitious, let's see how the ridership for those trains looks as a percentage of population of the areas served by those trains. I think that would be an interesting and more useful measure of success than just the raw passenger numbers.

I'm not a statistician, and maybe this isn't the best way to look at this... but here's an example anyway, just for the heck of it:

If we add up the populations of the cities served by the Hiawatha, the total is 3,351,922. If we add up the populations of the cities served by the Downeaster, the total is 994,543. Calculated as a percentage of population, the Hiawatha's ridership is 26.1%. The Downeaster's ridership is 55.5%.

As we all know, numbers and statistics can be used in all kinds of creative ways to prove wildly differing points. I'm just trying to find a way to measure a train's success or popularity that is more meaningful than raw passenger numbers, which I'm sure we can all agree do not tell the whole story.

[electricron]

I am surprised the Empire Corridor is not on the list.

So was I.

The web site I was looking at separated the Adirondack and Maple Leaf, and included the Albany to NYC trains with the other NEC services. So it is difficult to state what the Empire Service trains ridership was. Sorry.
https://www.railpassengers.org/tools-in ... tatistics/

Never-the-less, these services from NYC probably still existed on A day.

Some of the other trains on my earlier list were too, but I listed them anyways to be inclusive. I’ll let you decide if the trains were “ new “ or not.