Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

[Lentinula]

I don't know the distance from Richmond to Brunswick, ME, but if it's under 750 miles, which I am pretty sure it is, it will be up to the states to fund it. Good luck with that.

In any case, Worcester is the second largest city in New England. It should have more intercity train connectivity that it does currently, IMO. MassDOT is draggin its butt on the plan to increase service west of Worcester. That will require a conversation with CSX, and the doubling of the track where it's currently single. That also opens up the long talked about Boston to Montreal service via Springfield and White River Jct.

But I digress.

Ah but that would require MA legislature to acknowledge Worcester's existence. We need more outside connectivity in WOR but heck, we still cant even get a reasonable schedule to Boston! You saw the fuss they put up for Heart to Hub, and in the end we got two express trains a day that dont even work for commuters.

The very suggestion that Worcester could generate or attract travelers other than token commuters to Boston is beyond comprehension for the statehouse.

[Rockingham Racer]

Agreed. It's the same phenomenon in New York: Upstate New York vs. the rest of New York. I think "upstate" is anything north and west of Albany, but someone from the Empire State might shed some light on that.

Again, I digress from the thread topic.

[gokeefe]

Couldn't Anderson have meant "each station from Richmond to Brunswick will be served be a train that does not skip any Amtrak stations along its route"?

That was my impression "by default" as in "they can't possibly mean something else" ... But one does wonder

[gokeefe]

What about a routing over P&W from New London to Worcester?

I thought of that. Also use the P&W track between Providence and Worcester as a possibility? The Providence area has lots of people of Canadian heritage. So, too, does parts of Maine.

I would note that P&W has a "torturous" connection with the NEC in Providence and there is no platform in Providence that can access the P&W track.

It's fine for freight but impossible for passenger.

[gokeefe]

The B&M between Worcester and Ayer is in pretty rough shape from what I understand, though. Would take a fair amount of $$ to get it up to Amtrak shape.

On the other hand if you go to Boston the track is passenger ready.

[gokeefe]

The question is: through train, or branch?

If you terminate at BON for a transfer to the Downeaster the operational risk is greatly reduced. It also makes the logistics for maintenance significantly easier.

[Greg Moore]

Agreed. It's the same phenomenon in New York: Upstate New York vs. the rest of New York. I think "upstate" is anything north and west of Albany, but someone from the Empire State might shed some light on that.

Again, I digress from the thread topic.

It's a nebulous concept.
Folks in NYC think anything north of Westchester is "upstate".

Generally I'd say I'd call stuff north of Poughkeepsie "upstate" at least as far as NYC is concerned.

Generally around here we call it the Capital District.

[MACTRAXX]

Agreed. It's the same phenomenon in New York: Upstate New York vs. the rest of New York. I think "upstate" is anything north and west of Albany, but someone from the Empire State might shed some light on that.

Again, I digress from the thread topic.

It's a nebulous concept.
Folks in NYC think anything north of Westchester is "upstate".

Generally I'd say I'd call stuff north of Poughkeepsie "upstate" at least as far as NYC is concerned.

Generally around here we call it the Capital District.

GM and RR:
The distinction between "Upstate" and "Downstate" in New York State has always interested me...
I am a geography and map buff especially interested in New York State counties and regions.
As a native Long Islander/Downstater I have noted that there are some that think that anyplace
that is north of The Bronx is "Upstate" - which is truly not the case here...

The most accurate boundary between Downstate and Upstate to me is the Interstate 84 routing from
the Port Jervis area across Orange and southern Dutchess Counties to the CT state line near Danbury.
Orange and Dutchess Counties are the two "transition" counties between these regional areas. 10 NYS
Counties comprise Downstate: The Five NYC Boroughs/Counties along with Nassau and Suffolk on LI;
Westchester, Rockland and Putnam Counties. The remaining 50 counties to the north of Orange and
Dutchess Counties comprise all of Upstate New York. There are a total of 62 Counties in NYS.

Now back to the Downeaster topic...MACTRAXX

[Rockingham Racer]

What about a routing over P&W from New London to Worcester?

I thought of that. Also use the P&W track between Providence and Worcester as a possibility? The Providence area has lots of people of Canadian heritage. So, too, does parts of Maine.

I would note that P&W has a "torturous" connection with the NEC in Providence and there is no platform in Providence that can access the P&W track.

It's fine for freight but impossible for passenger.

There used to be a connection at what used to be known as Boston Switch in the ETT, north of the defunct Pawtucket station. That has been removed, but it would not a major project to restore it. Only a coupla million or so!

[Jeff Smith]

I was thinking a cross-platform transfer to a diesel at New London, while the NEC train continues to BOS.

The question is: through train, or branch?

If you terminate at BON for a transfer to the Downeaster the operational risk is greatly reduced. It also makes the logistics for maintenance significantly easier.

[Arborwayfan]

I guess. But then why not say "Maine to Miami"?

Because the NEC and the Downeaster are corridor services with closely-spaced stops mostly in pretty densely populated areas (even Wells and OOB must have more pax within a half'-hour drive than many of the smaller LD stations in the South, let alone places like Green River and Cut Bank. They are both the kind of service that has a prayer of being useful and and widely popular and competitive with flying and getting lots of no-car passengers.
Also, at some point in the past, Amtrak grouped the Downeaster with the NEC for some public purposes. I am sure I remember that Amtrak rewards counted the Downeaster in a group that included the NEC and maybe some other NE routes but definitely no LDs outside the corridor. And when the DE was new there was some talk of a shuttle bus to make connections across Boston easier for people with luggage (an idea that should probably be looked at again, in case it could bring in enough pax to more than pay for itself with some combination of a $5 fare and additional ticket revenue on both Downeaster and NEC.

[ryanch]

I guess. But then why not say "Maine to Miami"?

Because the NEC and the Downeaster are corridor services with closely-spaced stops mostly in pretty densely populated areas (even Wells and OOB must have more pax within a half'-hour drive than many of the smaller LD stations in the South, let alone places like Green River and Cut Bank. They are both the kind of service that has a prayer of being useful and and widely popular and competitive with flying and getting lots of no-car passengers.
Also, at some point in the past, Amtrak grouped the Downeaster with the NEC for some public purposes. I am sure I remember that Amtrak rewards counted the Downeaster in a group that included the NEC and maybe some other NE routes but definitely no LDs outside the corridor. And when the DE was new there was some talk of a shuttle bus to make connections across Boston easier for people with luggage (an idea that should probably be looked at again, in case it could bring in enough pax to more than pay for itself with some combination of a $5 fare and additional ticket revenue on both Downeaster and NEC.

Ha! That has me reminiscing about my first small business. A spring break airport shuttle to Logan from my "small school near Boston." (Those who went there will know that is sufficient description.) We rented three 15-passenger vans, probably using them in a way expressly prohibited in the rental contract; posted flyers with our dorm number for reservations, prompting a call from the Dean saying we couldn't run a business from the dorm. We nodded sagely and went on as we had. Ultimately, we made $45 in profit, but one of our friends had gotten a $15 parking ticket, didn't tell us, it doubled b/c it wasn't paid, and then the rental company tacked on a $15 fee, exactly cancelling out our profit.

I should add that to my resume as "transit management experience."

[MEC407]

I should add that to my resume as "transit management experience."

You'll be getting a job offer from Boston Surface Railroad any day now...

[ryanch]

I should add that to my resume as "transit management experience."

You'll be getting a job offer from Boston Surface Railroad any day now...

My understanding is the owner of BSR is now claiming he is not in default of any obligations, because he's personally shuttling people from Woonsocket to Worcester using his 2009 Hyundai as an Uber.

[Lentinula]

It's a nebulous concept.
Folks in NYC think anything north of Westchester is "upstate".

Generally I'd say I'd call stuff north of Poughkeepsie "upstate" at least as far as NYC is concerned.

Generally around here we call it the Capital District.

I lived in the Finger Lakes for about 5 years. There are "degrees" of upstate!

Back on topic- how involved would getting WOR-Ayer up to snuff be? Im sure its not trivial but as compared to the alternatives it shouldn't be that bad? And with some creative switching couldnt they say have a train from boston intercept the main train at Worcester union and join up, similar to how the lake shore limited does? Then the new bigger train with Boston addition could continue North however they decide, via Clinton or Gardner or whatever?