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  • Amtrak HHP-8 Discussion: Use, Reliability, Disposition

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1536390  by STrRedWolf
 
ApproachMedium wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:22 am Only 8 of them are tied up with PMCC. I dont think the other units are tied up in anything as of yet. Philip morris did not own all of them
Per Amtrak's Office of the Inspector General, it's assumed they're all under the lend/lease deal. I would also consider all of them under the lawsuit unless specifically named in the charging documents.
 #1536497  by STrRedWolf
 
BandA wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:05 am What is the over / under on how long the litigation will take? And the result? Could MARC wait for the resolution?
MARC's busy with the rebuild and the Chargers. They can wait... if they were interested in the first place. I doubt they are.
 #1536563  by gokeefe
 
BandA wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:05 am What is the over / under on how long the litigation will take? And the result? Could MARC wait for the resolution?
I would say 3.25 years is about where it would lie.

Although I understand that as others say it's a matter of trainset management I remain surprised that MARC wouldn't be able to take advantage of it.
 #1536569  by David Benton
 
Taking into account all known factors, and opinions on here, I estimate it will be resolved on May 10 th, 2024 (after a good lunch makes everyone agreeable, say 2p.m), and the resolution will be Amtrak pays Philip Morris $ 3,928,456.33 , keeps the hpp-8s, despite the NEC been converted to run using freight diesels.
 #1536596  by Tadman
 
Keep in mind damages have to be shown and quantified in most cases in order to recover something.

I'm not sure what damages Phillip Morris can show if the units have no future. Their scrap value is not affected, and until PM can find a viable secondhand market, their only value is scrap.

My guess is that PM's leasing sub is hurting right now and wants to get some sort of settlement that is less than the cost of litigating for four years.
 #1536602  by Tadman
 
Yes and no.

There is a very healthy tobacco and cigar aficionado community already. I was once in the Davidoff shop a few blocks behind GCT and a guy walks in and offers us all a finger of scotch out of a bottle that was somewhere north of $3,000 retail. It's close union of mostly guys that will welcome a stranger with a lit tobacco device, be it cigar, pipe, whatever. The cigarette guys have their own group as well.

As for the passing of Phillip Morris, it reminds me of that old Mark Twain saying - "Rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated".

I know a PM employee very well. That company has more money than they know what to do with. Throughout the 80's and 90's, things looked down because of legal liabilities, but there was always an underlying money machine firing on all cylinders. If you watch "Barbarians at the Gate", you'll see the problem was never profits, it was that the stock price was being hammered because DESPITE the cash flow, because the legal ramifications were very big. Lots of those legal questions have been settled now, and the government has very strict regs on how to market, sell, and produce cigs. As of today they are doing quite well and very generous to employees.

The railroad leasing business is probably one of those "where do we park our cash?" sidelines. We've also seen the tobacco giants buy food companies and change their names to make it look less like a tobacco company to investors.

Long story short, the rail leasing thing was a bit of a distraction and PM is not going away any time soon.
 #1536607  by STrRedWolf
 
mtuandrew wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:42 am Do you suppose that someday, tobacco aficionados (cigafans? :P ) will be as nostalgic over the passing of Philip Morris as railfans are about Penn Central?
Even if it did, most cigarfans (from a few I know) wouldn't be picking anything from PM anyway when there's dedicated cigar shops and cigar manufacturers. So it's a wash to think so.

But we digress.
 #1536623  by mtuandrew
 
I should know better than to not expect answers to rhetorical questions I post on this board :wink:

Moderator Note: I’m not locking the thread just yet, but let’s focus on other topics until we have more information on the HHPs from Amtrak, PMCC, Alstom, BBD or another reputable source. We’ve pretty well exhausted this one.
 #1536630  by Pensyfan19
 
In that case, let's get this going! :-D

Does anyone know if MBTA will be using the stored HHp-8s, or AM-7s anytime soon?

How is the rebuild program going for MARC and their HHP-8s? Can they buy any more HHP-8s from Amtrak and use those?
 #1536642  by STrRedWolf
 
Backshophoss wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:25 pm MBTA is motor adverse,all equipment must operate anywhere in their territory.
MARC's Hippo's are an R&D project,NO results!
Amtrak's Hippo's,Legal Hold,lessor vs Amtrak,over "missing parts"
End of story.
I have not heard any complaints about the rebuilt MARC 4910 Hippo that’s in service. So far so good!
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