Amtrak HHP-8 Discussion: Use, Reliability, Disposition

[liftedjeep]

A pair of retired & renumbered Amtrak HHP-8's at the shops in Wilmington, DE, as seen from the yard entrance:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5270878

Ben

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. Kranefeld, if the HHP-8 units you were able to photograph yesterday (thanks, of course) had been retired, their unit numbers would have been stricken. Therefore, they remain on the roster.

Are they available for revenue service???? Well.........

[Backshophoss]

They were renumbered above the ACS-64 fleet,considered in storage till lease expires.
Maintained to have current 92 day inspections and current air brakes
Parts were "borrowed" to keep the Acela I's running.

[Tadman]

How well would the HHP-8s handle freight service? I recall from their use on the circus trains that they seemed to be considered reliable in that application.

I'm wondering if one of the freight operators on the NEC might bite ... (or maybe just nibble).

Very very poorly. They're already known as unreliable locomotives and they're fairly light. They usually try to ballast freight locos close to 71,500 lbs per axle and the Hippos are only 55,500 lbs/axle. They even weigh less than a GP40-2.

And where would you use them? Where is there a freight that stays entirely on the NEC from yard to customer? Nearly all NEC freights traverse diesel trackage.

Agreed on both counts. It would be like trying to pull a semi truck with a Corvette. Light weight, four axles, high power, geared for top end... That there is only a passenger engine. Probably the reason they were doubled on the circus train is to start it, not move it.

[gokeefe]

So was the E60 similar? Obviously they have a very long history of freight service. Just trying to understand more about these smaller fleet pools and in particular electric engines with unsuccessful service histories on Amtrak.

[Backshophoss]

The E-60CP was based on the E-60 CF freight motors built for BMLP in Az.
Were "covetable" like the SDP40F to freight motors for CR,if Amtrak"folded" real quick years ago.

[ApproachMedium]

At 400,000lbs the E60 class was much heavier, and with 6 axles, than the HHP-8. It could pull at the rated TE that it could put out. The HHP can pull but usually needs help.

[Tadman]

As noted the E60 was designed as a freight electric for some coal carriers out west originally. The trucks look mighty similar to the C30-7 as well, which did a lot of coal hauling for roads like BN and MILW. Neither saw much service on the far side of 50, let alone 100.

[rcthompson04]

As noted the E60 was designed as a freight electric for some coal carriers out west originally. The trucks look mighty similar to the C30-7 as well, which did a lot of coal hauling for roads like BN and MILW. Neither saw much service on the far side of 50, let alone 100.

The electric coal railroads are almost gone as well. Coal phaseout and lack of suitable locomotives are to blame.

[mtuandrew]

Even if there were a captive domestic coal hauler that weren’t put out of business by changing demand, and even if they decided it was cheaper to replace their electric motors rather than use run-through diesel (or biodiesel or LNG-powered) unit trains, and even if they didn’t buy the remaining E60 fleet from Black Mesa & Lake Powell...

...they would buy a Siemens Vectron derivative rather than regearing and modernizing the HHP fleet.

[MattW]

I guess the bottom line is, the only chance the Hippos have is for an NEC commuter operation to pick them up. Caltrain has their AEM-7s for testing, Denver doesn't need locomotives, and they're utterly unsuited to freight. Beyond that, they're razor blades. Even within that, NJT doesn't seem to have a need for more electric locomotives, SEPTA just got new locomotives, SLE may eventually use the M8 but only if they go electric at all, definitely wouldn't be an oddball like the Hippo. That leaves MBTA and MARC. MBTA seems disinterested, and MARC...who knows. At one point they were going to scrap their HHP-8s, but it seems they're keeping them around, but not interested in any additional units. So, again, bottom line, very unlikely that these turn a wheel in revenue service ever again. Did I miss something?

[mtuandrew]

I guess the bottom line is, the only chance the Hippos have is for an NEC commuter operation to pick them up.

...

So, again, bottom line, very unlikely that these turn a wheel in revenue service ever again. Did I miss something?

Nope, that’s about it.

[rcthompson04]

I guess the bottom line is, the only chance the Hippos have is for an NEC commuter operation to pick them up.

...

So, again, bottom line, very unlikely that these turn a wheel in revenue service ever again. Did I miss something?

Nope, that’s about it.

The only way I see them running again is if someone has a Silverliner V service emergency and needs power quickly and for a long period of time (year or longer). They weren’t even brought back into service for that crisis though.

[STrRedWolf]

I guess the bottom line is, the only chance the Hippos have is for an NEC commuter operation to pick them up. Caltrain has their AEM-7s for testing, Denver doesn't need locomotives, and they're utterly unsuited to freight. Beyond that, they're razor blades. Even within that, NJT doesn't seem to have a need for more electric locomotives, SEPTA just got new locomotives, SLE may eventually use the M8 but only if they go electric at all, definitely wouldn't be an oddball like the Hippo. That leaves MBTA and MARC. MBTA seems disinterested, and MARC...who knows. At one point they were going to scrap their HHP-8s, but it seems they're keeping them around, but not interested in any additional units. So, again, bottom line, very unlikely that these turn a wheel in revenue service ever again. Did I miss something?

MARC is rehabbing their 6 HHP-8s and would rather buy more diesels to replace them. They replaced their AEM-7s with Siemens Chargers.

[east point]

MARC is rehabbing their 6 HHP-8s and would rather buy more diesels to replace them. They replaced their AEM-7s with Siemens Chargers.

Yes but and a very big but. Use of diesels on the NEC will require two diesels to maintain MARC speeds of up to 125 MPH. MARC is the fastest commuter rail in the USA. One diesel is not enough HP to maintain that speed that Amtrak requires on the NEC. MARC could get by with just one diesel if they would build 4 main tracks on the NEC from WASH to Perry. That way slower and many stop MARC trains could stay on outer tracks not interfering with AMTRAK HSR trains.