Amtrak HHP-8 Discussion: Use, Reliability, Disposition

[CSX Conductor]

Is it possible to MU an HHP-8 with an AEM-7?

I don't see why it couldn't be done. After-all various models of diesels are very frequently married together on freights.

Any word on the status of AEM-7 #922 and the other one that got fried in a transformer fire (930 perhaps)?

For some reason I was thinking that was the 927 that got fried.

[mlrr]

927 has not been fried. I saw it as recently as mid July and have not heard anything about 927. 927 is also an AEM7AC. All the AEM7s that have been involved in fires were DC AEM7s from what I understand.

The HHPs do have to be given credit where credit due as they have picked up the slack during the Acela debacle. I was nervous about the Acela debacle because I was concerned about the HHPs reliability but apparently they have pulled their weight.

I'm waiting for the day when I hear mostly good things about the HHP. From what I read thus far, this thread appears to be a start.

[AmtrakFan]

922 and 930 are out of service.

[Nasadowsk]

Unlike diesels, most electrics in the US don't have compatible MU outlets, since there are generally too few around to worry about it.

Supposedly, the AEM-7 and HHP-8 can MU, but I don't think it's done in real life.

[capltd29]

Sorry, but what does MU mean?

[natethegreat]

basicly, MU is when 2 or more locos are connected together, and controlled by the lead locomotive. MU=Multiple Unit

[KLCS]

Are we back to power (engine) changes in Washington DC, rather than Philadelphia? If so, then Amtrak's getting over the hurdle somewhat. Even when full Acela Express units were in operation, Amtrak often remarked on its electric loco shortage - and to think that the Keystone Corridor Project is going to need at least 4 or so dedicated electric locos once it is restored to full electric service between Harrisburg and NY Penn. I think they will need more than 4 for the Keystone corridor, but that's what one report claimed for full electric restoration on the Keystone corridor to take place. On the other hand - perhaps that's true, since the engine change in Philly will be eliminated - and they needed electric locos here to continue the service to NY which can now stretch their legs to Harrisburg.

I'm not familiar too much with Amtrak, but I thought that diesals couldn't be run through the Baltimore tunnels, requiring all trains to be electric?

[Gilbert B Norman]

Diesel powered trains, both Amtrak passemnger and Norfolk Southern freight, regularly use the Baltimore tunnel. Same applies to the CSX/B&O tunnel where durring summer 2001 (pre-9/11) there was a serious derailment and fire.

There have been incidents involving the PRR tunnel (B&P Tunnel IIRC) resulting in Corridor "bustitutions". Most specifically I recall one during Sep 1976, as my travels were directly affected.

[Rail4Life]

Diesels run through the baltimore tunnels every day with MARC service. During the day they run diesels between washington and Baltimore on the NEC. Also at Union Station they frequently MU HHP's and AEM-7's as they move them back and forth between IVY City and Union Station.

[Jtgshu]

I always thought anything with a 27 point MU jumper recepticle could MU?

I could SWEAR that Ive seen NJT Geeps and ALP44's MU'ed together (mainly on the Hudson yard protect job) Maybe one was isolated and they were using the controls of the other?

Ive asked different engineers and always got different answers.

Sorry if a little off topic, but NJT ALP44's and '46's can MU, so I would assume that an NJT '46 and an Amtrak AEM 7 could MU as welll - I never did see an AEM7 with a E60 though

[DutchRailnut]

electricaly they can mu, but think the brake setup may be questionable, direct vs slow release.

[Wdobner]

The HHP-8's are doing fine, just because someone saw a high OOS rate one day they are labeled as unreliable by Railfan communitie.
While the Acela's were out they and AEM7's did keep things going with not much failure.

5 days of being short one unit and 14 days of two or more units down for unscheduled maitenance in the month of January 2005 is 'doing fine'? There was a story in the May 2005 issue of 'Trains' magazine which appeared on page 26 recounting the NEC's problems this winter. Among catenary problems and other factors one of the featured items was the abyssmal availability of the HHP-8s. During the same month wherein two or more HHP-8s were not available on 14 days, the larger AEM7 fleet had only 9 days where two or more units were unavailable for service and 5 days where one unit was down. The article goes on to state that "The reliability of the 15 HHP-8 electric locomotives is so marginal that Amtrak's Wilmington (Del.) national power desk assings no more than 8 of them to duty on a given day. Often the number available turns out to be much lower. On January 23rd, only four HHP-8s were ready to roll." I don't know how that can be interpreted as 'doing fine', especially when the AEM7ACs and ALP46s really are doing fine, performing day in and day out with few reliability concerns. The HHP-8s are now 4 to 5 years old, it is well past the time when such problems can simply be chalked up to 'teething' and potentially represents a long term problem in the operation of these locomotives.

Now I've not heard anything on the HHP-8's performance since the figures recounted from January in the May 2005 copy of Trains, and indeed it'd seem that summer has brought a slightly smaller number of cancelled or delayed trains. If it turns out that the winter of 2005 is for the HHP-8s what the disasterous winter of 1958 was for the GG1s then that's fine by me. Amtrak has bigger problems than trying to find 15 new electric locos capable of 125mph operation. However, until the HHP-8s prove themselves by lasting through a winter with a reasonable availability there is no reason to say that the HHP-8s are doing anything like fine. The engineers which operate the HHP-8s are right to say they distrust the troublesome locomotives, and Amtrak should be keeping their options open should it become neccesary to ship the HHP-8s off to the scrapper a few decades early.

[Nasadowsk]

Shoulda tested a prototype, or at least bought something with a proven track record first. Actually, didn't the Astride series have a pretty bad record over in .eu. IIRC, the HHP-8s were the first from that series to actually hit real service. Could be wrong though.

When the HHP-8s work, they work well. But the big thing is - they're not working very much. And MARC's been having trouble with their units.

One wonders if it's the ghosts of the E60 or something. The '46s at least function, are quieter (WHY WHY WHY is the HHP-8 so darn noisy?), they're not perfect, but they're a LOT closer than the HHP-8s have proven themselves so far...

I seriously don't get the French. Sometimes they hit everything just perfectly - look at the TGV. And they CAN at times make good stuff. No issues with Telemecanique's stuff, they're strong in the nuke field, they had an 800 line TV system in the 50's - with a simpler set than anyone else. But, then you get stuff like this, or their beyond horrid automobiles, a phone system so flakey it used to play a two note tone while switching so you knew the call didn't die, the SECAM system which is so bizzare nobody understands it, or their laughable pre Airbus attempts at comercial airliners. Excepting, of course, the Concorde...

[DutchRailnut]

Hmm maybe problem is not on french side of locomotive. Could it be that its the Amtrak Maintenance ?? Maybe the lacks attitude of workers.
after all we did loose our pride in this country.
Would you let NASA install bathroom tiles.
How bout any Concrete in this country, four components mixed at right amounts but it won't last but a few years ?? there are German bunkers still standing in Europe with no wear but here Cenment fails after 8 years ??? from rainwater.

[Nasadowsk]

<i>Hmm maybe problem is not on french side of locomotive. Could it be that its the Amtrak Maintenance ??</i>

Maybe? *shrug*

<i>Maybe the lacks attitude of workers.</i>

Well, that explains most of Amtrak's state, IMHO. From ops to maintenance to management.

<i>Would you let NASA install bathroom tiles.</i>

Heh. IMHO, the Space Shuttle needs to be flown into a museum and left there. I still don't get the point of making something that spends the bulk of it's flying time outside the atmosphere look like an airplane. Ok, other than the biggest whine of Mercury/Gemini/Apollo astronauts was 'it doesn't have wings!!! Wahhhhhhhhhh'. IMHO, history will look at the Shuttle like automobiles styled like horse buggies - an example of people molding a new technology into a shape they can recognize. Sure a 'capsule' looks weird, sure it works weird. But the fact is - the design worked amazingly well. The shuttle's been an overcomplex money pit with virtually no safety margin - as opposed to the 'complex' (and for the time, it was) Apollo, which was a can with a heat shield that was very conservative despite a much higher re-entry speed.

<i>How bout any Concrete in this country, four components mixed at right amounts but it won't last but a few years ?? there are German bunkers still standing in Europe with no wear but here Cenment fails after 8 years ??? from rainwater.</i>

Bad Q/C. As annoying as roads in the US. Thin strip of asphalt onsquished dirty that gets all chewed up in a few years.

Hey, Hoover Dam is still standing But they won't give you the nice tour anymore Just a stupid politically correct 'interpretive center'. I didn't go there to find out how some native American felt about building the dam there, I went there to see house sized generators spinning!