Mail by Rail -- Amtrak Postal Service

[R36 Combine Coach]

Of course moving mail via Amtrak is not feasible in all situations, but it seems like it
might be worthwhile to transport mail between endpoints that happen to be located
next to major postal facilities.

And there certainly are some still in existence. Anyone care to add to the list?

Pittsburgh and St. Louis have main post offices next to their respective stations. The 30 Street
post office has been downsized, I believe down to retail counter service only (the major USPS
terminal out by PHL airport).

[wigwagfan]

Of course moving mail via Amtrak is not feasible in all situations, but it seems like it might be worthwhile to transport mail between endpoints that happen to be located next to major postal facilities. That way you don't have to worry about the time required to unload the mail car en-route.

Also, the City of Portland, Oregon, purchased the U.S. Post Office facility just west of Union Station, and then purchased a golf course out by Portland International Airport, and then paid to build an entirely new Postal facility and to move the USPS well out of town (well, to outer northeast Portland).

So, even a city that loves trains like Portland with its sprawling light rail and streetcar system, doesn't want the post office downtown near the tracks.

[Arborwayfan]

The Postal Services has been moving main post offices out of smaller cities, too: in Urbana, IL, they moved to a place on the edge of the cornfields that subsequently got surrounded by cookie-cutter development houses.

In Terre Haute, IN, they had built a huge new PO out in mall-land next to the interstate a few decades ago (1990?) and about ten years ago the state university bought the WPA Post Office Court House downtown. The feds built a new court house with tighter security and the post office just closed. For a little while the university ran a contract station in one corner of the building but they had limited hours and only took cash so of course business was slow and they closed it.

Moral: downtown is not necessarily convenient for mail other than mail that actually originates downtown, and in most cities downtown land is too valuable to keep the industrial part of the PO there (as opposed to the retail parts, which probably aren't leaving the bigger downtowns entirely unless the whole operation goes bust.).

[charlesriverbranch]

I don’t disagree, Mr. Olesen, but the big money is in parcel shipment now. Unfortunately, for a number of reasons (some bureaucratic, some financial, some political) the USPS has largely missed that train too. Not that it’s Amtrak’s problem to solve.

FedEx and UPS have not missed that train, if what I've been seeing on the La Plata, MO railcam is any indication. But the trains they're using aren't Amtrak trains.

[mtuandrew]

Moral: downtown is not necessarily convenient for mail other than mail that actually originates downtown, and in most cities downtown land is too valuable to keep the industrial part of the PO there (as opposed to the retail parts, which probably aren't leaving the bigger downtowns entirely unless the whole operation goes bust.).

What was the line, “It’s so popular no one goes there anymore”?

Amtrak won’t fix that problem either (if it is a problem in the usual sense.)

[Arborwayfan]

That's more or less where I was headed, mtuandrew. It seems to me that the 1980s and 90s mail business happened partly because there were a lot of big post offices next to big Amtrak stations, so it was fairly easy to use Amtrak as just another "trucking company" for some city pairs. Now that's less true. I don't see Amtrak coming back as a mail hauler. And if Amtrak works right, it will actually raise demand for downtown real estate.


Has the USPS missed the package train? I see a our letter carrier delivering a lot of packages every day. But that's a discussion for a different website.

[eolesen]

FedEx and UPS have not missed that train, if what I've been seeing on the La Plata, MO railcam is any indication. But the trains they're using aren't Amtrak trains.

Keep in mind FDX and UPS have multiple lines of business and tiers of service... For their ground networks and items which are less time sensitive, they do ship a lot of things by container to their terminals. Not everything can travel by air nor should it, particularly hazmats like batteries.

[David Benton]

Kinda fits in with where I was going with the Amazon comment. On the NEC , Amtrak does have the station space (though limited), and the frequemcy of trains. I'm not suggesting massive distribution centers, or offices. Think current bicycle couriers and future Amazon drone delivery proposals . The linehaul is competitive , and pretty well covered. But the final delivery is congested in cities, and costly. Those vans stuck in traffic are ticking over $$$. So I'm thinking where Amtrak provides a car or 1/2 a car per train dedicated to bicycle delivery size ( or minivans ) that can quickly off load, go straight to their delivery route, and return. No warehouse space ,( storage time negates the advantage of the scheme). Only requirement is quick ingress/ regress that doesnt interfere with passengers , or lenghten boarding times.

[David Benton]

FedEx and UPS have not missed that train, if what I've been seeing on the La Plata, MO railcam is any indication. But the trains they're using aren't Amtrak trains.

Keep in mind FDX and UPS have multiple lines of business and tiers of service... For their ground networks and items which are less time sensitive, they do ship a lot of things by container to their terminals. Not everything can travel by air nor should it, particularly hazmats like batteries.

just a note my last post was posted before I read this , and does not relate to this.
It s almost impossible to get a small quantity of lithium batteries out of China , because their is no cheap hazmat option. All the aliexpress etc rates are based on bulk airmail . For which a similar size item might be free to $ 6 shipping. batteries will be $ 60 -$ 120 (all USD , but its the scale that i 'm trying to illustrate anyway). Sea freight for small shipments is way more expensive than air . Economies of scale.
Another niche Amtrak could explore. The 2nd is a version of flight shame , people paying more to ship their goods in the greenest way. If I had a way to ensure these items could travel by land rather than air , I would . Obviously take longer , but you can plan around that .

[mtuandrew]

Kinda fits in with where I was going with the Amazon comment. On the NEC , Amtrak does have the station space (though limited), and the frequemcy of trains. I'm not suggesting massive distribution centers, or offices. Think current bicycle couriers and future Amazon drone delivery proposals . The linehaul is competitive , and pretty well covered. But the final delivery is congested in cities, and costly. Those vans stuck in traffic are ticking over $$$. So I'm thinking where Amtrak provides a car or 1/2 a car per train dedicated to bicycle delivery size ( or minivans ) that can quickly off load, go straight to their delivery route, and return. No warehouse space ,( storage time negates the advantage of the scheme). Only requirement is quick ingress/ regress that doesnt interfere with passengers , or lenghten boarding times.

That’s pretty clever. Post-COVID it could succeed, as long as there’s a way to get bulk items to the station in the first place. A company could even forklift a rack of loaded bikes onto a baggage car at (say) BAL and have new riders pick them up at NYP (for uptown) or NWK (for the PATH connection to Wall Street.)

Batteries are more difficult, especially bulk lithium batteries through tunnels. That isn’t a reasonable expectation I think.

[STrRedWolf]

Kinda fits in with where I was going with the Amazon comment. On the NEC , Amtrak does have the station space (though limited), and the frequemcy of trains. I'm not suggesting massive distribution centers, or offices. Think current bicycle couriers and future Amazon drone delivery proposals . The linehaul is competitive , and pretty well covered. But the final delivery is congested in cities, and costly. Those vans stuck in traffic are ticking over $$$. So I'm thinking where Amtrak provides a car or 1/2 a car per train dedicated to bicycle delivery size ( or minivans ) that can quickly off load, go straight to their delivery route, and return. No warehouse space ,( storage time negates the advantage of the scheme). Only requirement is quick ingress/ regress that doesnt interfere with passengers , or lenghten boarding times.

That’s pretty clever. Post-COVID it could succeed, as long as there’s a way to get bulk items to the station in the first place. A company could even forklift a rack of loaded bikes onto a baggage car at (say) BAL and have new riders pick them up at NYP (for uptown) or NWK (for the PATH connection to Wall Street.)

Batteries are more difficult, especially bulk lithium batteries through tunnels. That isn’t a reasonable expectation I think.

Ehhhh... there's trouble there. Assume dedicated baggage car at one end of the train that has mail as well, fit in dedicated containers (a la UPS) that can be easily locked down or wheeled out. Assume each container is pre-sorted so by the time you get to the destination city for a set of packages, you can just wheel the container(s) out.

Take Baltimore (BAL). You only have 4 tracks (4-7) served by two platforms, and one elevator each. No matter what (because of how the elevator is arranged) you're likely to be fighting passengers(ADA) for those elevators... and woe if it breaks down. No, you'll need a freight elevator away from customers and a second bridge... and you're taking over the Post Office building if it's the east-most point. If it's the west most point, you're extending the platforms and building right next to Charles Street.

Take Washington (WAS). Southmost point, you're fighting passengers. Northmost point, you need freight elevators.

Take New York Penn (NYP)... you know, no matter where you go, you're fighting passengers. You got no room. As they say, fuhgedabouddit!.

The point is, you got major infrastructure problems that prevent offloading packages in a safe and efficient manner.

[David Benton]

I'm not talking container size , I'm talking large suitcase , rolling pallet size.
Maybe Farley will sort NYP problems . If there's difficult access , it needs improving for passengers anyway .
As far as batteries go , again i 'm talking courier bag amounts , not bulk.

[gokeefe]

I have always wondered if there would be a savings to the postal service on certain Express Mail routings ... Now known as Priority Mail Express ... Nothing fancy just a locked cabinet and a postal carrier picking it up at the platform with a parked small vehicle waiting outside ...

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[Backshophoss]

There's a Mail/Express platform at NY Penn,under the Farley building,however doubles as access leads for the NJT stub tracks at Penn

[gokeefe]

Also have wondered if certain courier options would be more efficient by rail than by car/truck.

Just rent a lockbox space in the baggage car and use "as needed".

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