east point wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:58 pm This poster has a real concern about P-40 and P-42 retirements. It is the unbelievable number of grade crossing accidents. For me maybe Amtrak should use the GEs to be a sacrifice to the many tractor trailers that just love to get in front of any Amtrak train. So how to mitigate this problem. ? Just let the GEs lead a charger on all trains thus saving the Chargers from most but not all dumb vehicle drivers ? Unless a GE prime mover fails each train would have at least 2 sources for HEP.Amtrak is not going to keep the tired old P42s around just to play crash dummy and what makes you think that the engineers would prefer to run from the older beat P42 vs being in the newer Charger? Isn’t it a waste of money just to buy a new locomotive just to tuck it away behind a 30 year old one forever...
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Genesis discussion (AMD-103, P40DC, P42DC)
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But at the rate motor vehicles play chicken with Amtrak locos 3 years might be all it takes ? Of course they could be made into cabbages ?
The retirement of the P42s is going to happen in one of the next few years. Despite them being suitable for long distance routes given their acceleration issues, they have been hit or miss with reliability. They have been breaking down a lot for multiple years on long distance trains.
The P40s that operate on Ctrail trains will probably be around for a long time. There are many that are being rebuilt and the refurbished CDOT owned P40s will have the up to date Ctrail livery. Hopefully those P40s will be reliable, given that they will be traveling on Shoreline East and on the Springfield Line.
The P40s that operate on Ctrail trains will probably be around for a long time. There are many that are being rebuilt and the refurbished CDOT owned P40s will have the up to date Ctrail livery. Hopefully those P40s will be reliable, given that they will be traveling on Shoreline East and on the Springfield Line.
CSRR573 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:32 pm So im not sure if this has been brought up on here or other threads but the unibody of these units are rotted enough that fuel(which is stored in the unibody of the unit) will spill out by the couplers and Mu hoses nowAh, so this is why Amtrak seems not to have considered the rumored GEVO repower kit or a conversion to AC traction. Same reason no one rebuilds Dodge Caravans: they’re very effective at their job but once they start failing, EVERYTHING fails.
Moderator Note: comment removed, personal attacks aren’t welcome here.
mtuandrew wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:34 amNext time your up close to one, look at the rear of the locomotive and on both sides of the rear door, the bodies are all rotted through near the bottom. Ive seen a few that you can see through enough to see the base of the air compressorCSRR573 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:32 pm So im not sure if this has been brought up on here or other threads but the unibody of these units are rotted enough that fuel(which is stored in the unibody of the unit) will spill out by the couplers and Mu hoses nowAh, so this is why Amtrak seems not to have considered the rumored GEVO repower kit or a conversion to AC traction. Same reason no one rebuilds Dodge Caravans: they’re very effective at their job but once they start failing, EVERYTHING fails.
CSRR573 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:43 am Next time your up close to one, look at the rear of the locomotive and on both sides of the rear door, the bodies are all rotted through near the bottom. Ive seen a few that you can see through enough to see the base of the air compressorIs there a pool of Geneses that don’t have body rot? Like the old stored P40s, or units that mostly saw service in dry areas, or even engines that got painted regularly?
Some of the recent ones that have had overhauls were repainted outside and in the cabs.
The portion of the GEs that has body rot is not a structural location and is easily repaired with sheet metal.
No good deed goes unpunished.
with monocoque body every part of skin is important, by neglecting part of it you place stress on rest.
the area were Compressor is located actually has a lot of stress as the radiators and radiator fan are in upper part of body at that location.
the area were Compressor is located actually has a lot of stress as the radiators and radiator fan are in upper part of body at that location.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???
Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
DutchRailnut wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:52 am with monocoque body every part of skin is important, by neglecting part of it you place stress on rest.A body sheet panel rotting away isnt going to cause a stress problem. There are internal fixings that support that weight. I am certain that a single welded sheet of steel is not the only thing supporting the roof and the rot at the bottom of it is not going to be what breaks the loco down. If it was they would be repairing them a lot faster.
the area were Compressor is located actually has a lot of stress as the radiators and radiator fan are in upper part of body at that location.
No good deed goes unpunished.
a Genesis has no frame, and no internal structure like a EMD F unit . its skin that caries the load .
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???
Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
Id say the fuel leaking through the baffles in the monocoque body would be the thing that does them in. Very hard to fix
I've said before that 90% of the routes would've been just fine with conventional freight engines with HEP skids or HEP in baggage car. Here's another great reason. There are plenty of post-1965-vintage engines still running around, including oodles of F40 passenger engines. One big reason is they all have ladder frames. It looks like the Gennies are not long for this world with rot/rust.
Of course the reason the monocoque design was used is "for high speed" despite they top out at 103 or 110, are limited to 79 in most places, and it's mostly smoke and mirrors. The Gennie contemporary, EMD's F59PHi, was just as "passenger looking" but will be able to serve another 20 years on Metra with the right drivetrain maintenance.
Of course the reason the monocoque design was used is "for high speed" despite they top out at 103 or 110, are limited to 79 in most places, and it's mostly smoke and mirrors. The Gennie contemporary, EMD's F59PHi, was just as "passenger looking" but will be able to serve another 20 years on Metra with the right drivetrain maintenance.
The new Acela: It's not Aveliable.
All that may be true, Tad, but Amtrak had the chance to rebuild those F40PHs (at either EMD or MPI.) They could be running around the Amtrak system still, stuffed to the gills with 16-710s, pumping out 4,000 hp, and hitting 110 mph on the daily. Amtrak chose not to do so, chose not to order the F69PHAC, and only ordered a limited number of F59PHs. Further, it decided against ordering many P32-8BWHs when those would have been easy to add onto a supplemental order, and never did order a GP59MPH. You and I both know self-steering trucks were in their infancy, and Amtrak wasn’t willing to take the chance on six-axle power again.
But that extra 700 hp in the P40 made a difference. One fewer locomotive for long hauls, lower fuel consumption than an equivalent two-stroke, the potential to run through all those Corridor-sized nooks and crannies, and besides GE really wanted that deal.
Had EMD proffered a 16-710-powered F60PH with the same dimensions as the F40PH, we might have a different timeline.
But that extra 700 hp in the P40 made a difference. One fewer locomotive for long hauls, lower fuel consumption than an equivalent two-stroke, the potential to run through all those Corridor-sized nooks and crannies, and besides GE really wanted that deal.
Had EMD proffered a 16-710-powered F60PH with the same dimensions as the F40PH, we might have a different timeline.