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  • Amtrak Tennessee Proposals: Memphis - Nashville - Knoxville - Chattanooga - Atlanta

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1534663  by Gilbert B Norman
 
The media coverage of this proposal rightly notes that six hours is "not exactly" time competitive with four. That's "strike two" before even stepping up to the plste.

Anyone around here familiar with the terrain knows there is no way, absent Asian and European level of infrastructure investment, that Nashville-Atlanta can be viable H, or even 'er, SR.
 #1534667  by gokeefe
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:22 amThat's "strike two" before even stepping up to the plate.
If there's heavy traffic congestion and this is a Virginia scenario I would say it's not as big of a problem.

The visit with the Tennessee legislature ahead of time was indicative to me that Amtrak made sure there was a real possibility of success before going public.

Another way that Virginia factors in to this equation is their very high degree of success with their current service. In that sense Tennessee seems more interested in following their lead than choosing the Alabama approach.
 #1534671  by electricron
 
Amtrak is encouraging the Tennessee legislature into studying rail routes within that state, but not encouraging other surrounding states into studies for the same corridors?????? How could a line through Nashville connecting it to Atlanta or Chicago ever occur without extending that line through Georgia and Kentucky (at a minimum)? Yet, neither Kentucky or Georgia are being encouraged to study this same line.

What we are seeing is national politics at work here - which seems has been happening all along. With a GOP administration they spend money studying dozens of potential routes vs spending any money building any, then a following DEM administration willing to spend money on building new routes use these recently completed studies to eliminating most of them, therefore only a few are ever shovel ready.

If you did not get what I'm suggesting, let me make it clearer, Amtrak wants Tennessee's study to prove it is not feasible to ever build a new train line there. If their motive was otherwise, they would be encouraging Kentucky and Georgia to participate in the same study. :(
 #1534677  by gokeefe
 
electricron wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:01 amIf you did not get what I'm suggesting, let me make it clearer, Amtrak wants Tennessee's study to prove it is not feasible to ever build a new train line there. If their motive was otherwise, they would be encouraging Kentucky and Georgia to participate in the same study. :(
Completely and utterly inaccurate based on my own experience working with senior Amtrak management.
 #1534705  by Gilbert B Norman
 
gokeefe wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:30 am Another way that Virginia factors in to this equation is their very high degree of success with their current service. In that sense Tennessee seems more interested in following their lead than choosing the Alabama approach.
Mr. O'keefe, I'm sorry but I fail to see any analogy between the present "Virginia is for train lovers" sentiment and any possible Nashville-Atlanta initiative.

I missed out on "The Georgian", but I've driven I-24 enough to know the terrain. Compared with the Virginia initiative, which has added service in the flat, but populated, regions, Monteagle (35 mi W of.Chattanooga) represents quite a barrier. The N,C,&StL takes a circuitous route to avoid such, and no E-W highway touched it until the 24 was built. Follow the stations on the Atlanta Division to see the diversion through Alabama and Georgia.

If there was the committment to rail infrastructure found in Europe and Asia, it would be done. But even the highway lobby need listen to the Rolling Stones nowadays.
 #1534741  by R&DB
 
Some thoughts on Atlanta problems:
1> Since they need a new station, why not put it where NS and CSX are side by side ners Blandtown or Hills Park. They could have platforms on each class 1 without Amtrak interfering with traffic on both at the same time.
2> Amtrak purchase part of the empty yard at the former CSX Atlanta Service Center or the CSX Transportation REDI Center and create an Amtrak service facility/yard.
3> Extend transit line from Bankhead Station to new Amtrak station for easy acess from most areas of Atlanta.
4> Once the above are complete, close Peachtree.
Chattanooga presents some other problems:
The original station is no longer connected to the national system. Easier to build a new station, probably near The Howard School.
Nashville:
Build new station in the wye and replace the state employees parking lot with a parking garage.
 #1534742  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Southward, from here (MP 81) to here (MP 165), I-24 and the N,C,&StL go their separate ways.

Guess which is more direct (84mi or , from the ETT, 102 )

I can only reiterate, this is "No Country for HSR".
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1534743  by electricron
 
R&DB wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:43 am Some thoughts on Atlanta problems:
1> Since they need a new station, why not put it where NS and CSX are side by side ners Blandtown or Hills Park. They could have platforms on each class 1 without Amtrak interfering with traffic on both at the same time.
2> Amtrak purchase part of the empty yard at the former CSX Atlanta Service Center or the CSX Transportation REDI Center and create an Amtrak service facility/yard.
3> Extend transit line from Bankhead Station to new Amtrak station for easy acess from most areas of Atlanta.
4> Once the above are complete, close Peachtree.
Why should Atlanta pay millions of dollars to build a brand new station for Amtrak that will be visited by just two trains a day? The Crescent visits Atlanta at 7:30 pm northbound and 8:30 am southbound, averages around 70,000 passengers per year (192 passengers per day). Atlanta's Metro nexus Five Points Station averages around 20,000 passengers per day, (or 7.3 million passengers per year).
Five Points Station has around 100 times more usage. For every passenger boarding or alighting from an Amtrak train in Atlanta, there are 100 passengers boarding and alighting at just the Five Points Station in downtown Atlanta. Which station do you think the City of Atlanta cares for more?
Atlanta's MARTA daily ridership statistics are even more lopsided.
432,900 (weekday; total)
231,700 (weekday; rail)
199,000 (weekday; bus)
2,200 (weekday; paratransit)
Even paratransit has 10 times more riders than Amtrak in Atlanta.
 #1534751  by dowlingm
 
electricron wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:22 am Why should Atlanta pay millions of dollars to build a brand new station for Amtrak that will be visited by just two trains a day? The Crescent visits Atlanta at 7:30 pm northbound and 8:30 am southbound, averages around 70,000 passengers per year (192 passengers per day). Atlanta's Metro nexus Five Points Station averages around 20,000 passengers per day, (or 7.3 million passengers per year).
Five Points Station has around 100 times more usage. For every passenger boarding or alighting from an Amtrak train in Atlanta, there are 100 passengers boarding and alighting at just the Five Points Station in downtown Atlanta. Which station do you think the City of Atlanta cares for more?
Atlanta's MARTA daily ridership statistics are even more lopsided.
432,900 (weekday; total)
231,700 (weekday; rail)
199,000 (weekday; bus)
2,200 (weekday; paratransit)
Even paratransit has 10 times more riders than Amtrak in Atlanta.
This is solid analysis but my question would be how Atlanta/Georgia can get commuter regional rail going as Nashville did (not just equipment and crewing but enough infrastructure investment to make the Class 1s go along) such that Amtrak would merely be a subsidiary user of the facility, and dwell times minimized with efficient platform layouts with timing/servicing/crew changes happening elsewhere? GO Transit’s trainsets deliver 1500 seats plus standees with every peak movement. Crescent currently arrives/departs in rush directions from/to Gainesville but presumably not anywhere near the sort of OTP needed by commuters.
 #1534753  by gokeefe
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:45 pm
gokeefe wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:30 am Another way that Virginia factors in to this equation is their very high degree of success with their current service. In that sense Tennessee seems more interested in following their lead than choosing the Alabama approach.
Mr. O'keefe, I'm sorry but I fail to see any analogy between the present "Virginia is for train lovers" sentiment and any possible Nashville-Atlanta initiative.
Mr. Norman,

My take on the situation so far is tea-leaf reading of the politics. They look pretty good. I would imagine Amtrak did quite a bit of work behind the scenes before going to a legislative hearing. Hence, the relatively positive reception.

I would absolutely acknowledge that none of what I'm saying is related to operations or logistics. Merely that at this very delicate moment the picture looks more promising than one would have expected.

Alabama always loomed like a dark cloud over the Gulf Coast service. Tennessee appears to be "mostly sunny".
Last edited by gokeefe on Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 #1534755  by mtuandrew
 
I really wish it were easy to tuck a single island platform into the Gulch next to Five Points. Absolutely doesn’t need to be much, just enough to be proof-of-concept for Amtrak.
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