Amtrak ticket refund policies to change

[exvalley]

The simple reality is that the traveling public has been conditioned to accept these fees. Anderson knows that.

[Suburban Station]

The simple reality is that the traveling public has been conditioned to accept these fees. Anderson knows that.

I have my doubts that it is even anderson's idea or that they have thought through how it affects all of their services. a good executive sets broad goals and lets managers figure out the details. I believe, that while anderson likely has final say on a lot of big decisions, his goal is to eliminate the operating loss rather than implement a specific agenda.
we can reasonably disagree on its utility but unfortunately there is no (rail) competition in the northeast so we are left to either take or leave rail based on amtrak's performance. I have typically supported amtrak in the past but with ideas like this, it may be time to force them to compete a little harder.

[lordsigma12345]

Let me try to make this very simple because you don't seem to appreciate the scope of my argument.

As of right now, Amtrak is offering the following coach fares for train #449 between Albany and Chicago on November 11, 2019.
Saver: $82
Value $103
Flexible: $198

Here is my point: Amtrak should offer something of value in exchange for the customer paying a higher fare. In other words, someone who purchases the Value fare should receive something of value above and beyond what the Saver fare offers. And someone purchasing the Flexible fare should receive something of value above and beyond what the Saver and Value fares offer.

I really don't think that this is contentious. If you spend more you should get more. My position is pro-consumer in that regard.

The fees will indeed be based on those tiers. Saver fares essentially become nonrefundable while value fares get the fees. Nothing is changing from the previous model for flexible fares and premium fares (corridor/long distance business, Northeast Regional business, sleeper). So for that higher 198 fare you aren't subject to the same restrictions or the new fees.

[unichris]

unfortunately there is no (rail) competition in the northeast so we are left to either take or leave rail based on amtrak's performance.

In a few places there fortunately is.

For example, I sometimes use Metro North plus either the Hartford Line or Shore Line East for trips from NYC into New England. Two commuter rail seat in a row aren't a lot of fun, but it does cost less than even the most advanced purchase Amtrak, tends to be more available at the last minute when all of the remotely reasonable Amtrak fares are already sold out. And oh, yes, you can bring a bike. Still beats the bus, too.

Did something similar once for NYC to Philly with the combination of NJT + SEPTA. And it looks like Boston's MBTA goes as far as Providence.

But of course these are the exceptions, not the norm.

I have typically supported amtrak in the past but with ideas like this, it may be time to force them to compete a little harder.

indeed!

Holding out hope that there's still some option to change a saver fare to another schedule or credit it against future travel.

[Suburban Station]

When I say competition I dont mean commuter trains, j mean bringing in someone like virgin trains.

Well see, anderson has indicated an intention to launch a low fare service but if they're just going to nickel and dime passengers while charging exorbitant fares we should reconsider

[Tadman]

That's what all the other low fare carriers do, air or otherwise. There is no real low fare service other than a city bus.

[exvalley]

That's what all the other low fare carriers do, air or otherwise. There is no real low fare service other than a city bus.

Well said. Amtrak is not doing anything groundbreaking here. The sky will not fall.

[Suburban Station]

That's what all the other low fare carriers do, air or otherwise. There is no real low fare service other than a city bus.

there are hundreds of intercity buses a day plying the interstate that contradict this statement. other than that, it is exactly the type of policy low fare carriers like intercity bus lines and frontier airways offer with the main difference that the fare is actually low.

Well said. Amtrak is not doing anything groundbreaking here. The sky will not fall.

that goes without saying, the folks at 1 mass aren't known for breaking new ground.

[exvalley]

Amtrak is not in competition with busses, at least along the Northeast Corridor. They have absolutely no desire in chasing the customer who is only willing to pay $14 to get from Boston to New York.

[Arborwayfan]

The all-stops service (however it is organized) should be unreserved, or reserved only in certain cars. We probably can't get the unreserved every 15 minutes in some type of train that they have between Rotterdam and Amsterdam, but we can have unreserved, no-planning-needed-if-you-are-willing-to-stand service on the NEC and any other corridor that someday gets hourly or better service. And if that somehow makes the trains more expensive to run, I'd like to see the math to prove it.

[Suburban Station]

Amtrak is not in competition with busses, at least along the Northeast Corridor. They have absolutely no desire in chasing the customer who is only willing to pay $14 to get from Boston to New York.

Amtrak is in competition with cars and buses. There are plenty of people who would be fine paying a more reasonable premium than what is now charged.

The only unreserved services are state run but certainly that would get around the other unfriendly ticketing policies.

[Tadman]

Amtrak is not in competition with busses, at least along the Northeast Corridor. They have absolutely no desire in chasing the customer who is only willing to pay $14 to get from Boston to New York.

Agreed. Amtrak is at capacity in corridor services, especially during peak times like holidays, fridays, etc... Their ticket prices are 3-5x that of megabus. Asserting that they're in competition with those busses is like asserting that Walmart flipflops are in competition with Air Jordans for athletic wear. Yeah, they're both footwear, but nobody is playing ball in flippies...

[exvalley]

Amtrak is in competition with cars and buses. There are plenty of people who would be fine paying a more reasonable premium than what is now charged.

Your second sentence completely refutes your first sentence.

Don't confuse passenger desires for Amtrak's choice of competition.

[Arborwayfan]

Who Amtrak chooses to try to compete with is one thing. Maybe Amtrak isn't trying to serve NEC travelers who can or will spend the least; that seems like a fair interpretation of Amtrak's fare structure and types of service even if they've never said it explicitly in public (and maybe they have).

Who Amtrak is in competition with is another thing; it's imposed by the market, that is, by passenger desires, the price of substitutes and complements, Willingess to Pay and so on. And it pretty much works out to Amtrak being in competition with all modes of travel along any route Amtrak serves, whether it's Westerly to Mystic or Chicago to LA.

If you mean "which passengers is Amtrak most strongly trying to attract" or "which competing services is Amtrak trying to attract passengers away from", say that.

[exvalley]

Who Amtrak is in competition with is another thing; it's imposed by the market, that is, by passenger desires, the price of substitutes and complements, Willingess to Pay and so on.

Sorry, but Gucci is not in competition with Target. Maybe from a pedantic perspective, but definitely not from a practical perspective.