Amtrak considers extending Wolverine line from Chicago to Toronto via (VIA?) Detroit

[Tadman]

The sudden interest in an admittedly difficult undertaking makes little to no sense otherwise. Few things could be harder than setting up another international route to/from Canada.

This route makes a ton of sense if it were done in the right mindset. It's a big city that has very strong economic connections to the countryside nearby. It's just that the countryside nearby is another country. In the EU, this is no big deal. Around here, we'd probably come up with 27 reasons why it can't happen or 35 add-on's that make it unfeasible. But simply a Detroit-London-Toronto corridor would be a vibrant service, especially with a pre-check at Detroit like we have at Vancouver or Montreal. Literally this could be done without Amtrak if Via were to work it out with either CP or CN, and perhaps the Ford guys regarding MCS.

But it's not the RR.net specialty of a full diner 3-night sleeper from Spokane through Minot and Omaha to Shreveport, it's a very active corridor. I was in Detroit last week and the traffic over the bridge is pretty hefty.

[WesternNation]

I'd rather see it like this:

With the possibility of MCS coming back online for pax service, why not turn Detroit into a "mini-hub"? Detroit-London-Toronto can be based out of there as an Amtrak service operated by VIA crews. Pre-check lines in Vancouver (the one international route I have experienced personally) turned a two-hour border stop into a twenty minute, according to today's 517 train status on TransitDocs. Nailing that down would help significantly.

Time it so that the Detroit-bound train would connect with a Chicago-bound Wolverine and vice-versa, with maybe an hour or two between arrival and departure to allow people to get off, get (quality) food, fresh air, etc. Yes, it would take a little longer, but layovers are a thing with any mode of transportation.

Axe the "Pontiac branch" and originate/terminate the trains at MCS.

[mtuandrew]

Count me in on most counts, WesternRailfan, though the Pontiac branch provides a lot of ridership. Maybe you’d need to reverse ends at MCS or maybe send a train DET-CHI via CN, but the communities northwest of Detroit have a lot of pull in Lansing and wouldn’t care to lose a one-seat ride to Chicago.

[WesternNation]

Count me in on most counts, WesternRailfan, though the Pontiac branch provides a lot of ridership. Maybe you’d need to reverse ends at MCS or maybe send a train DET-CHI via CN, but the communities northwest of Detroit have a lot of pull in Lansing and wouldn’t care to lose a one-seat ride to Chicago.

I accidentally posted that without finishing and didn’t realize it until just now .

I know the Detroit metro area has been trying for commuter rail service: the Pontiac branch is a great way to start. Connect to MCS.

[gokeefe]

But it's not the RR.net specialty of a full diner 3-night sleeper from Spokane through Minot and Omaha to Shreveport, it's a very active corridor. I was in Detroit last week and the traffic over the bridge is pretty hefty.

Haha ... I agree that in most places this proposal wouldn't be a big deal at all. That being said I'm only trying to understand why Amtrak is doing something it typically avoids at all costs. They don't even mention a potential state partner.

Taking this a step further ... Does the track configuration allow for use of the VIA Windsor station from CP/MCS?

[dgvrengineer]

There is a connecting track that branches off just east of the tunnel portal. I'm sure it would require upgrades as it looks rather rough on Google Earth. It would require a short backup move to get in & out of Windsor station, but that shouldn't be a show stopper.

[Backshophoss]

From a look at google maps.Not possible,the tracks end at the station,the wye there is also torn out.
Would be a long reverse move from the CP/CN mainlines.
Better off with Sarnia/Port Huron for the passenger train crossing

[gokeefe]

Well ... The good news there is that the present station at West Baltimore Avenue in Detroit is ideally configured on a through routing. Port Huron would need a modification to the current stub end tracks but it doesn't seem like too much. Sarnia is favorably configured as well. The question beyond that then becomes whether or not Port Huron would need a new station to handle customs or if the preclearance would be done in Toronto. Seems like a major loss of online traffic forego so many intermediate stations.

[WesternNation]

From a look at google maps.Not possible,the tracks end at the station,the wye there is also torn out.
Would be a long reverse move from the CP/CN mainlines.
Better off with Sarnia/Port Huron for the passenger train crossing

Strongly disagree with Sarnia/PTH. Canadian National already causes problems with the Blue Water. It makes more sense to keep it on higher-speed Amtrak-operated rails instead of the Flint Sub.

It also presents an opportunity to relocate the station to a nicer location on the existing tracks out of the tunnel. The current Winsdor station is in a rather...interesting part of town. Heavily industrialized, dilapidated infrastructure just down from the station, etc. Might make for a good layover/overnight service location, but it's not the best place for a station. One potential new location is on Wellington Ave, the large empty lot between Giles and Montrose.

[Backshophoss]

Like the Maple Leaf does now,believe the International changed to a VIA train at the border,the renewed service should do the same
The service level at Sarnia/Port Huron is roughly 2/3 of what is handled at Detroit/Windsor crossing, less wait /more thru put.less delay
to the train.
Too much Automovive parts and Casino traffic at Detroit/Windsor,with delays crossing the bridge, it's getting worse!!

[dgvrengineer]

From a look at google maps.Not possible,the tracks end at the station,the wye there is also torn out.
Would be a long reverse move from the CP/CN mainlines.

Not true. Follow the track coming out of the tunnel and keep to the left. There is a connection from CP to CN pointed in the right direction. I believe this is or was the Essex Terminal Railway. A switch would be required to connect to the CN as it was removed. It would also require a backup move from that switch to the Windsor VIA station of about 1 mile with no grade crossings.

[Backshophoss]

NO DICE,other than an industry track ,it dead ends at the Via Station on the sat view,Wye is gone as well

[gokeefe]

Like the Maple Leaf does now,believe the International changed to a VIA train at the border,the renewed service should do the same

Worth noting this idea implies financial support from VIA rail as well ... State supported service would eliminate the headache of trying to line up both national agencies.

I didn't realize this but there is a precedent for state supported international operations on this route or components of it. The previous Niagara Rainbow was funded jointly by MDOT and NYSDOT.

Interesting that per the wiki Amtrak has tried at least once to get Michigan to agree to a routing of the International via Detroit.

[NS VIA FAN]

It’s would be an awkward and time-consuming move to serve the new VIA Windsor/Walkerville Station. VIA also owns nearly the entire 70 km of former CN track from Windsor to near Chatham and has extensively upgraded it for higher speed operation. If that wasn’t the case…..a through train might be able to use the CP mainline which is a straight-shot from the tunnel to where it crosses the VIA main west of Chatham. A connection could be built here…then onto Toronto on the current VIA route.

https://goo.gl/maps/GBTEGijdN5aF7s3d9

[electricron]

When proponents start arguing straight shots bypassing Windsor's VIA train station, implying Detroit is left serving Windsor; they only reinforce what I wrote earlier, that Windsor already serves Detroit. VIA runs at least three round trips a day between Windsor and Toronto. They could up it to four round trips without any help at all from Amtrak, but they haven't yet.
How many trains are enough?