quad50cal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:58 pm
Tadman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:50 am
See graph: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 0-2015.png
See graph of NYC Subway Ridership: https://cdn.viewing.nyc/assets/media/bf ... 731dd8.png
Tadman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:50 am
Despite what our resident socialists feel, the number show privatisation has been a resounding success for ridership in the UK, which has more than doubled since privatisation in 1997. It hasn't been without its hiccups
The NYC Subway managed to accomplish a near identical renaissance without having to resort to a privatization scheme. The NYC Subway as did British Rail suffered from the same problem of decades of chronic extreme under-funding. The British made a deal with the devil by choosing privatization to address their funding shortfall. They now have to contend with international ownership of their railways, ticket prices that are up to six times the relative price of their European peers and the British government still pays for nearly all of the capital improvements to infrastructure and about half of infrastructure maintenance costs.
So while the "socialize the losses, privatize the profits" scheme that the British have adopted would help alleviate capital needs, you have to wonder if a convoluted accounting shell game is an improvement on Amtrak.
Do not confuse British Rail with the Underground, nor confuse Amtrak with the NY subway. All four are completely different organizations.
The Underground was entirely private until 1948, when the nationalized British Rail was formed, initially within BR eventually and in 1962 it became independent but still under the Transport Ministry. In 1970 responsibility was assumed by the Greater London Council . In 1984 responsibility returned to the central government, and finally in 1994 back to the Greater London.
It seems the British can not decide which government should run it, national or local.
Intercity trains in Britain were also entirely private until 1948 when British Rail was formed. BR was privatized 1994-1997. Ownership of the track and infrastructure passed to Railtrack on 1 April 1994. Passenger operations were later franchised to 25 private-sector operators and the freight services were sold to six companies.
Amtrak was formed in 1971, when it basically assumed all remaining intercity train services from private operators. Amtrak reported 31.7 million passengers and $3.17 Billion in revenues in 2018, but received $2.8 Billion in additional subsidies from Congress.. So, for 2018 the math = $5.97 Billion / 31.7 million riders = $188 /rider.
NY’s subway per Wiki
“By the time the first subway opened in 1904, the lines had been consolidated into two privately owned systems, the Brooklyn Rapid Transit Company (BRT, later Brooklyn–Manhattan Transit Corporation, BMT) and the Interborough Rapid Transit Company (IRT). The city built most of the lines and leased them to the companies. The first line of the city-owned and operated Independent Subway System (IND) opened in 1932; this system was intended to compete with the private systems and allow some of the elevated railways to be torn down, but stayed within the core of the City due to its small startup capital. This required it to be run 'at cost', necessitating fares up to double the five-cent fare popular at the time. In 1940, the city bought the two private systems. Some elevated lines ceased service immediately while others closed soon after. As of 2018, the New York City Subway's budgetary burden for expenditures was $8.7 billion, supported by collection of fares, bridge tolls, earmarked regional taxes and fees, as well as direct funding from state and local governments. In 2017, the subway delivered over 1.72 billion rides, averaging approximately 5.6 million daily rides on weekdays and a combined 5.7 million rides each weekend (3.2 million on Saturdays; 2.5 million on Sundays).”
Some math = $8.7 Billion/year / 1.72 Billion riders/year = $5.05 /rider
FYI, I wish I knew how to find costs/rider in Britain, I would add those statistics to this thread.