Amtrak Five Year Equipment Asset Line Plan

[frequentflyer]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/913pjwnj1gduv ... 4.pdf?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speaks of multilevel instead of bilevel when stating about LD equipment replacement. BBD cars are multilevel.

[R36 Combine Coach]

Highly important reading. Has a complete fleet roster (as of 10/2018), with every locomotive and car on roster. Learned that much of the Acela fleet and HHP8s are owned by: Philip Morris! Big tobacco at work...

[Nasadowsk]

Highly important reading. Has a complete fleet roster (as of 10/2018), with every locomotive and car on roster. Learned that much of the Acela fleet and HHP8s are owned by: Philip Morris! Big tobacco at work...

I'm curious as to how they ended up being the owner. Interesting...

[Matt Johnson]

No love for the Talgos!

[Matt Johnson]

The idea of using Viewliner I sleepers as crew dorms on Superliner trains ahead of a transition Superliner sleeper seems dubious, as it would (a) not allow for expansion of eastern long distance capacity and (b) leave Amtrak with only 25 Viewliner II sleepers to replace 48 Viewliner I sleepers.

Speaking of the Viewliner I sleepers, is 48 a permanent fleet reduction, with 2 of the 50 stored, or are those repairable?

[nomis]

Geen Poon strikes again.

[frequentflyer]

Doesn't seem like a slam dunk for Siemens Viaggios as some have speculated. Still looking at other options, including DMUs.

The report does lend credence to a rumor posted on another rail site about the Bilevel Superliners being replaced with a Siemens multilevel product.

[east point]

The idea of using Viewliner I sleepers as crew dorms on Superliner trains ahead of a transition Superliner sleeper seems dubious, as it would (a) not allow for expansion of eastern long distance capacity and (b) leave Amtrak with only 25 Viewliner II sleepers to replace 48 Viewliner I sleepers.

Speaking of the Viewliner I sleepers, is 48 a permanent fleet reduction, with 2 of the 50 stored, or are those repairable?

[Gilbert B Norman]

In addition to the Equipment Plan noted by Mr. Flyer when originating this topic, Amtrak has released additional Five Year Plans. All are available at the Full Website using the path: About Amtrak/About Amtrak/Reports and Documents. If nothing else, they make for nice "coloring books":

Infrastructure Plan

Service Plans

Equipment Plan

Stations Plan

Transportation Plan

Corporate Services Plan

The best remark I have heard regarding Five Year Plans is a line of Script from the movie "Silk Stockings" where "Capitalist" Fred Astaire is madly in love with "Comnunist" Cyd Charisse and he remarks "I've been reading about your Five Year Plans for the last fifteen years".

[Gilbert B Norman]

No love for the Talgos!

Whatever love there was for Talgos came to a crunchy end on a bridge over I-5. Indicative of that are the two sets sitting at Beech Grove that if some party wanted to press them into service, they would be.

Once was enough in this life for me: May 1990 Bilbao, ES to Madrid.

[NY&LB]

Page 75 is interesting
Caption reads: Empire Service train 230
travels past Harlem as one
of Amtrak’s first scheduled
revenue service trains to
return to Grand Central
Terminal after more than
a quarter century.

Picture is of Glacier Park Station

First Bullet says: • Empire Builder (5.7 point decrease). Problem areas include OTP and information
provided to customers about delays.

Is someone confused about "Empire Service" and "Empire Builder"?????

[Tadman]

There's some good and bad thing to Talgos. I'm curious if the lack of love for them is on a mechanical level or a commercial level, perhaps an issue with Talgo corporate. Those two at Beech Grove have been there far before the Washington crash.

Globally, it's an odd group that operates them. Of course Spain has them. Argentina has a few because they were secondhand and they share a broad gauge. Russia uses them for sleeper trains to Berlin because Talgos have automatic re-gauging, and Portugal jointly operates the Sud Express sleeper with them. I'm curious what a night in a Talgo sleeper is like. But the US appears to be the only standard gauge Talgo market.

[WhartonAndNorthern]

There's some good and bad thing to Talgos. I'm curious if the lack of love for them is on a mechanical level or a commercial level, perhaps an issue with Talgo corporate. [...]

Russia uses them for sleeper trains to Berlin because Talgos have automatic re-gauging, and Portugal jointly operates the Sud Express sleeper with them. I'm curious what a night in a Talgo sleeper is like. But the US appears to be the only standard gauge Talgo market.

Since they're re-gauge-able, would Australia be interested in the design? They have some gauge oddities in the East.

On the Cascades route, there were locations with three speed limits (Talgos w/ matched locos, Passenger train incl. Talgos with P42s, and Freight). Are there any other Amtrak services that could see a speed benefit by using Talgos? I doubt NS would let you take them over Horseshoe Curve at 45 mph, but I'm curious.

[Tadman]

I think we've workshopped that one pretty thoroughly in other areas and come up with little. I don't know enough to back this up, but perhaps the Talgo is an idea who's time has come and gone but national pride in Spain keeps it under construction. I'd be curious to see annual production numbers. Aside from Spain and Portugal, there are something like ten trains in the USA (half built in Wisconsin), five in Argentina, two in Uzbekistan, three in Kazakhstan, etc... Not exactly a well-embraced technology.

Would the next generation of Cascades be better served by a Siemens product that looks like Brightline? Or perhaps by secondhand Caltrain MP36 and BBD cigar cars rebuilt for long distance seating purchased after electrification? The Starlight has an hour additional in the timetable to Portland, but how much of that is equipment (tilt) limitations and how much of it is just not pushing a slow long train because BNSF doesn't want to? How much curvature was eliminated by ditching the waterfront line south of Tacoma? If the answer is the latter two, perhaps a deep dive is necessary.

This leads to another important point in long-term equipment planning. Buying rare and one-off stuff like Talgo and Acela means there is little chance of selling them or reusing them. If we had bought an ICE or X2000 instead of the Acela, perhaps the Argentines or Kazakhs would buy it for their perpetually under development HSR. Perhaps they could be used in Keystone service or towed by a diesel. But its clear nobody wants standard gauge Talgos, even brand new, and nobody wants the used Acelas. That hobbles future developments of corridors.

[mtuandrew]

The nice(?) thing about Talgos is that they are sophisticated soda cans on wheels. They’re built no heavier than necessary and can’t really have major components reused, and that along with the required Talgo maintenance contract limits their resale value. Once they’ve served their purpose for 20 years, Amtrak won’t need to feel guilty about ditching them.

They really should have more use in places like Pennsylvania, Virginia, New York and California as well as the PNW and BC, but passive tilt doesn’t help when your host limits the top speed. Maybe Talgo will get a shot again in North America in a few decades, if we ever get a couple thousand miles of second, third and fourth passenger mains alongside the NS Harrisburg, D&H, and the rest.