LD-to-LD in Chicago

[justalurker66]

We've diverged for a while about Amtrak SOB (listening, Mayor Pete?) but it does bring up a good point: it’s rare at best that Amtrak offers a seamless commuter connection that goes between lines.

I can't remember if boot-a-judge (or is it boot edge edge?) is part of the push to move the South Shore station to the area near South Bend's Union Station. Not a bad idea when one looks at the ballpark and urban renewal but certainly an area that is more like downtown Gary (which also has a ballpark and raised tracks) than the nearly deserted area around the South Bend station. Being right on the main streets and close to the main Transpo hub will help. Being in an area of the city usually overrun by homeless won't help.

That would be the one negative I would say about Elkhart ... while at that station I have been approached by people wanting money. Usually with some story that doesn't check out (wanting gas for a car that isn't present). But Elkhart's finest are happy to patrol the station and move such people along. I have also been offered marijuana (not for sale, just being friendly). I still have no problem leaving my car there.

And with same day connections allowed in Chicago I would be able to leave my car at the Elkhart station two nights less than if I were forced to have a 24hr plus layover in each direction.

[mtuandrew]

I’m not sure how far east he wants SOB to move, only how far east he wants to move

[Arborwayfan]

OT, but: I supposed they came up with the three-letter code for South Bend before people started using SOB to mean son of a b? Because it's kind of confusing when I just glance at this thread and wonder who the SOB is, and then a second later realize it's just South Bend.

[Tadman]

OT, but: I supposed they came up with the three-letter code for South Bend before people started using SOB to mean son of a b? Because it's kind of confusing when I just glance at this thread and wonder who the SOB is, and then a second later realize it's just South Bend.

This has always amused me to no end. You'd think the folks that check vanity plates would also check the airline and railway station codes. I have had more than one friend ask if our old home station was really SOB. Also, the airport in town is SBN.

[ryanov]

Google Transit now includes Amtrak, including in South Bend (just checked -- there's a warning about out-of-date schedules, but it gives you the general idea). Big difference from the days when I had to do all this by hand (I use Amtrak, NJT bus and rail, PATH, private carrier buses, etc., etc.).

Re: "safety" of stations, plenty of people say Newark Penn Station is unsafe. Press a little harder and it's "there are some homeless people around; one asked me for money!" Maybe people spend too little time in areas where people are struggling and could use some perspective.

[Tadman]

Maybe people spend too little time in areas where people are struggling and could use some perspective.

As the resident "I wouldn't park there" guy, I'll field this one.

I've spent endless time in marginal areas. I make my living in the crane business. That means I spend lots of time in the part of town where you find a steel mill, locomotive shop, or port. I've spent overnights on job sites in places like North Lawndale (Chicago) where there are bullet holes in the building like swiss cheese. I used to work for a company near Newark, and used Newark Penn lots. I grew up in South Bend, and my mother grew up blocks from the current station. I've knocked on doors for cold-call business in places like Englewood (Chicago) and Gary Indiana. For 20 years I find myself in rough areas quite often.

Here's the take-away: There are lots of very kind and generous people there. There are quite a few really good restaurants where they will feed you and treat you like family. Fornos Restaurant in Newark is amazing, as was Porky's in Gary. I like working and eating in these neighborhoods. But that doesn't mean I'm going to linger, stick my nose in where it doesn't belong, or leave my car overnight.

Both the statistics and personal experience indicate that crime is prevalent, and you're just not going to convince me or anybody I know to leave a car overnight in Ironbound Newark or near the Bendix plant in South Bend. Maybe you want to roll the dice, maybe you don't care about your car, but from a point of expertise, I take a hard pass.

[ryanov]

Really makes me wonder what all those cars are doing parked there all night every night.

[justalurker66]

Really makes me wonder what all those cars are doing parked there all night every night.

Parked where? If you're talking about the Elkhart and South Bend Amtrak stations passengers have to park somewhere. Sometimes one has to take a risk. One cannot live their entire life in fear. If you are seeing the same cars every night in Elkhart or South Bend for more than a week it may be neighbors who consider the station to be a safer place to park than their own street. I left a car at Elkhart for a week when I took the train to DC.

There are places in Chicago where I would not park after dark (Kensington 115th St Metra) even though it could be a safe neighborhood. 115th St is the closest I have ever been to a murder, so that has an influence on my decision to consider the area "less than safe" but I have not had a bad interaction with anyone at that station during my brief visits. I used street parking next to Randolph St station when it was free in the 1990s.

The Millennium Park/Michigan Ave area after dark does have a problem with beggars. Begging is illegal in the park but on the sidewalks it is a constant hassle. Any conversation that starts with "I don't have a gun and I'm not going to rob you" is too strange to continue. The stations themselves seem to be well patrolled and monitored - although I did talk to a young woman at NICTD Millennium Station "desperate to get to Milwaukee". When I told her she was at the wrong station she said that Amtrak had run her out of CUS. I have met beggars in Elkhart too but the police will run them off if they see them.

The NICTD South Shore stations seem safe, although the crime I have heard of seems to be daytime car thefts and a couple of assaults (all at East Chicago). I do not have a detailed crime report for all stations - but I feel safe parking at any of the Indiana stations. Well lit camera monitored lots and platforms.

If you're talking about Newark you would know that area much better than me. I believe I have passed through the area twice (non-stop) in my entire life and have never been to Newark Penn Station. But based on my experiences in Chicago and DC (and other less major cities) there is a problem with people harassing others for a living. I don't support door to door salespeople and cold call telemarketers. I certainly do not support beggars.

I will support ministries that help people - but handing cash to a beggar doesn't solve the long term problem.

[R36 Combine Coach]

Re: "safety" of stations, plenty of people say Newark Penn Station is unsafe. Press a little harder and it's "there are some homeless people around; one asked me for money!" Maybe people spend too little time in areas where people are struggling and could use some perspective.

NWK is generally safe daytime, but the Greyhound terminal on the west end (north concourse) can be sketchy. NJTPD has large signs in the restrooms warning against "unauthorized use" or loitering. Station is well staffed and lit and McDonalds is an easy stop over point when changing between buses or trains.

If anything Port Authority Bus Terminal (PABT) seems to have more transients and beggars, on both the main concourse and lower (Greyhound) levels. PANYNJ has signs that state the upper levels are restricted to passengers with tickets only.

[ryanov]

The parking comment was responding to another poster saying he wouldn't leave his vehicle parked in the Ironbound, where thousands of people live and park every day.

I have lived in Newark for 15 years now, have been using Penn Station now and again since at least 1999, having been there likely every hour of the day (I might be missing the 5:00a hour -- not my favorite time to be awake). I walk home the overwhelming majority of the time. You pay attention to your surroundings, but in that many years, there have been a handful of times I felt I needed to be on alert, and was only right once or twice. Most recent time I was there was about 6 hours ago.

Off-topic, but there's no need to be so judgemental of panhandlers. There but for the grace of god... I've heard all of the excuses -- they'll spent it on drugs or booze (wouldn't you if you were sleeping on the street maybe?), they're not telling the truth, etc... I'm happy to have had opportunities to avoid such a fate.

[jbvb]

My most recent coast-to-coast trip was BOS - PDX in late August 2015. This was a time of big track jobs (BOS - ALB turned into BOS - NYP - ALB) and fires all over the west. I'd retired and my GF and I had friends in CHI, so it was easy to ditch the stress and stay in an off-brand hotel in the Loop (appears to have cost us $175). But a required extra day would have been at least a small obstacle back around 1990 when I used LSL-SWC-CS for BOS-SJC round trips to the Interop trade show, switching back and forth between coding on my (primitive) laptop and watching the passing scenery.

[leviramsey]

What about corridor-length trips served by LD? Let’s say I want to go from Toledo to somewhere west - KCY, MSP, OMA - which should be corridor trains but aren’t yet. I could fly if prices aren’t exorbitant, I could take Megabus for part of the trip (which is rather unpleasant), I could drive the twelve hours in which case I might want to rest overnight anyway, I could drive to Dearborn I guess?? (Edit: if Amtrak would guarantee a connection from the early Wolverine), or I could let Amtrak do the driving - but now I have to cool my heels until I can leave the second afternoon.

Until there is reasonable corridor service on the CHI-CLE trunk in particular, connections can’t realistically be broken if Amtrak wants to be a relevant transportation provider. Imagine the outcry at O’Hare were this to happen.

On the flip side, the LD connections are the very reason Chicago-{Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati} are markets where Amtrak isn't even a rounding error: if there's going to be one train a day, the choice is between same-day transfers between the eastern and western LDs or being able to serve those markets.