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  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1518494  by WhartonAndNorthern
 
daybeers wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm
WhartonAndNorthern wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:56 am
gokeefe wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:26 am
Backshophoss wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:09 amWill need interline ticketing for the connecting trains.
Another interesting aspect to running on the LIRR. Amtrak doesn't currently do this elsewhere (for example NJT, SEPTA, Metro North etc.).
Amtrak does treat the NJT Atlantic City Line as a Thruway service.
Yoooooo whatttt! Why don't they do this for other trains? I'm going to ask about the connection with the CTrail Hartford Line, which Amtrak owns and dispatches along with their Springfield Shuttles.
Yup Thruway buses, one Thruway ferry connection (Seattle to Vancouver Island, BC), and a Thruway commuter train.

That one's probably a vestige of Amtrak operating the Atlantic City Express service from 1989-1995 and Atlantic City being a popular tourist destination.
 #1518497  by ExCon90
 
I suspect that it may be a holdover from when Amtrak had trains to AC and simply got "grandfathered" when the service was taken over by NJT. However, it does show that it can be done and is being done; therefore, why not do it with other regional authorities? It would seem that they could work this out to provide, for example, through ticketing from points south of San Jose to Peninsula points served by Caltrain; San Diego to San Mateo? But someone would have to take the initiative.

(I missed W&N's post while I was typing this.)
 #1518500  by WhartonAndNorthern
 
ExCon90 wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:12 pm I suspect that it may be a holdover from when Amtrak had trains to AC and simply got "grandfathered" when the service was taken over by NJT. However, it does show that it can be done and is being done; therefore, why not do it with other regional authorities? It would seem that they could work this out to provide, for example, through ticketing from points south of San Jose to Peninsula points served by Caltrain; San Diego to San Mateo? But someone would have to take the initiative.

(I missed W&N's post while I was typing this.)
No worries. I agree with you. I think DC2RVA/SEHSR and Brightline Orlando-Miami are completed, they should also looking at sending a train via the Brightline route (haulage or trackage agreement, FEC operated no passenger trains on A Day). Maybe bring back the Palm. Keep the Star on the S-Line through the Carolinas and continue to Tampa like it does now and then hit the local stops on the way to Miami. One of the other two (I don't care which) can hit the "local" stops (because all politics are local), while the other can run via Brightline. All told the NY-FL time would probably drop by 2.5 hours.

Failing that, I think interline (Thruway) ticketing should be offered on Brightline
 #1518518  by mtuandrew
 
With SEHSR (whenever it is done) and the Brightline improvements, Amtrak could theoretically offer a very long daylight NYP-ORL-MIA trip. That’s assuming Amtrak was allowed on Florida East Coast and Brightline rails of course, and also assumes a connection between SunRail and Brightline in Orlando which may never happen (for good reason.)
 #1519183  by gokeefe
 
First direct mention I can ever recall of a possible plan to extend the Ethan Allen to Montreal once they get to Burlington (it's buried in the article).
Officials are currently working on upgrades to restore passenger rail to the Queen City with the Ethan Allen Express with a target of 2021 or 2022 for resuming service. A large-scale bridge project still needs to be completed in Middlebury, and the Vermont Department of Transportation still needs to select a site for train storage – a decision which has sparked controversy.

Fowler expects the Montreal service could resume in two years. The trains will run into Essex Junction – not Burlington – until the state upgrades the six miles of track between the two stations.

State officials met with the Canadian Ministry of Transportation in April and dialogue continues, according to meeting minutes from the Vermont Rail Advisory Council. The last passenger train to depart from Union Station and travel to Montreal was in 1953, according to Fowler.

There is a small stretch of Canadian track where higher speed upgrades could be done, but overall little work is needed.

Fowler said the Montrealer made travel north of the border easy and convenient for Vermonters. He hopes with the addition of the Ethan Allen Express to have one train run by day and one by night to have an appealing option for both Canadians and Americans.

“You could go to Montreal for a day, from any station, basically White River Junction and north in the course of a single day,” he said. The Montrealer used to get in at 10:45 in the morning, it left at 5:15 in the evening, and you didn’t need a hotel in Montreal.”
The article really blurs the lines between the two routes (Vermonter & Ethan Allen), however the implication of service from Burlington to Montreal seems clear enough.
 #1519185  by Arlington
 
Vt offers only sub-optimal termini--dangling ends in thinly populated places, whereas putting Montreal on any route makes them double-endef
 #1519199  by Backshophoss
 
Ethan Allen is the 3rd day train to VT,Might be what pvt sleeper outfit would like to use.
The Vermonter/Montrealer is still better pick for sleeper service to NYC/Wash DC
 #1519222  by bostontrainguy
 
Backshophoss wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:13 am Ethan Allen is the 3rd day train to VT,Might be what pvt sleeper outfit would like to use.
The Vermonter/Montrealer is still better pick for sleeper service to NYC/Wash DC
You could add a couple of coaches and a sleeper to/from Boston at Springfield too.
 #1519437  by Joke Insurance
 
Amtrak wants more short-distance, city-to-city trains. But at what cost?
March 18, 2019

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html
Amtrak says that because of this reality, it wants to increase its city-to-city, short-haul trips. That could mean adding trains between cities like Chicago and Cleveland, or Chicago and Cincinnati -- routes that could offer a time-competitive alternative to driving.
What short-distance, city-to-city routes would you all like to see? And yes, I am aware that this is old news.
Last edited by Joke Insurance on Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1519438  by NIMBYkiller
 
Very old news, and we still haven't seen any kind of comprehensive list out from Delta Dick detailing which corridors he'd like to (try to) tackle first. That's what I'm most interested in right now. You, me, and everyone here could shout out ideas til we're blue in the face, but I want to see what Amtrak has studied and is prioritizing (beyond the nominal stuff mentioned earlier in this thread). My guess right now: Nothing.
 #1519440  by bostontrainguy
 
For what it's worth:

Skift: You make a lot of your revenue on short-haul trains on the East Coast. But you said the longer routes are more challenging. What’s their future?

Anderson: There will always be a place for the experiential long-haul train, because Congress has told us clearly that that’s an important part of our mission. What we do is follow the law at Amtrak. The laws are clear that the national network is an important offering.

Probably today, we operate 15 of them, including Empire Builder across the northern western half of the U.S., the Zephyr from Chicago to San Francisco, the Southwest Chief, and the Coast Starlight. In an ideal state, we probably would operate somewhere between five to 10 and instead focus our efforts and resources on short-haul intercity transportation, because that’s where the demand indicators are for Amtrak.


https://skift.com/2019/09/07/skift-glob ... the-rails/
 #1519442  by electricron
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:29 pm For what it's worth:

Skift: You make a lot of your revenue on short-haul trains on the East Coast. But you said the longer routes are more challenging. What’s their future?

Anderson: There will always be a place for the experiential long-haul train, because Congress has told us clearly that that’s an important part of our mission. What we do is follow the law at Amtrak. The laws are clear that the national network is an important offering.

Probably today, we operate 15 of them, including Empire Builder across the northern western half of the U.S., the Zephyr from Chicago to San Francisco, the Southwest Chief, and the Coast Starlight. In an ideal state, we probably would operate somewhere between five to 10 and instead focus our efforts and resources on short-haul intercity transportation, because that’s where the demand indicators are for Amtrak.


https://skift.com/2019/09/07/skift-glob ... the-rails/
Five to ten long distance trains. How many does Amtrak run today?
(1) Empire Builder
(2) California Zephyr
(3) Southwest Chief
(4) Texas Eagle
(5) City of New Orleans
(6) Capitol Limited
(7) Lake Shore Limited
(8) Coast Starlight
(9) Crescent
(10) Silver Meteor
(11) Silver Star
(12) Auto Train
(13) Palmetto
(14)* Cardinal
(15)* Sunset Limited
*Note, these trains operate thrice per week vs daily

If five long distance trains continue on, which five?
If ten long distance trains continue on, which ten?
Last edited by electricron on Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1519444  by NIMBYkiller
 
That's also a list I'd like to see from Amtrak, but since we haven't really discussed it here I'd be happy to entertain. My response would be whichever routes couldn't be replaced entirely with corridors services along chunks of the route, even if they are seeing high end-ish to end-ish ridership. The only 2 that I could most likely see frequent corridor services covering all or almost all of the route would be:
Lake Shore Limited - NYP-Toronto, Chicago-Cleveland. If NYP-Cleveland via CNY were also viable for corridor service then you have the entire thing covered
Crescent - NEC, WAS-CLT, CLT-ATL. Jury is still out on NOL-ATL, but that could easily be filled in with a truncated Crescent

Some others I could see being truncated to just cover the portion of their route that wouldn't justify corridor service:
Coast Starlight - Seattle-Bay Area
Texas Eagle - Chicago-Dallas
Silver Services - South of DC only
Builder - MSP west only
Cardinal - CIN-WAS
Crescent - ATL-NOL

I'm not saying I agree entirely with these, just that if something had to be cut, it should be only where alternatives are created. Unfortunately though, since the portion being cut is likely the main generator of ridership from that end of the line, forcing a transfer for many of these services could potentially kill the ridership. But "bridge trains" or truncated LDs are better than no service at all. Also, some of the LDs run along the potential/existing corridor sections in slots that would still be useful on both sides. The Carolinian is a perfect example of that in both directions (might actually be the only one though). Is travel between NEC stations permitted on the Carolinian? If no, how frequently does the train go out with spare capacity? If the number is consistent enough perhaps Amtrak could sell whatever that avg percentage is for NEC travel and cap it at that.

Re-tooling some LDs to provide overnight service between major corridors could also be an option. They still serve the smaller communities and become even more useful for travel between major regions (rather than losing a day en-transit you're saving $$$ on accomodations).

Long and short though, nothing's gonna change. We'll get a couple of nominal enhancements and then politics will sadly force the person arguing for rail where it actually makes sense out the door.
 #1519448  by Arlington
 
Anderson nailed the # at 15. Your list omitted Capitol Limited and Palmetto
Below, I reckon 5 survivors, with the others split at a halving point or a new hub.
This plan results in no loss of service at any city currently served by an LD.

(1) Empire Builder
(2) California Zephyr
(3) Southwest Chief

(4) Texas Eagle (Little Rock Halving)
(5) City of New Orleans (MEM Halving)
(6) Lake Shore Limited (CLE HUB)
(7) Coast Starlight (Redding Halving)
(8) Crescent (ATL Halving)
(9) Silver Meteor (Silvermetto)
(10) Silver Star (Silvermetto)
(11) Auto Train
(12)* Cardinal (Huntington Halving)
(13)* Sunset Limited
(14) Capitol Limited (CLE HUB)
(15) Palmetto (Silvermetto)

(CLE HUB) (might have BUF or PGH variants)
CLE-CHI (or BUF-CHI)
CLE-PGH-WAS,
CLE-BUF-NYP
CLE-PGH-PHL

(Silvermetto)
WAS-(Selma)-SAV
WAS-(Ral)-SAV
SAV-ORL-TPA
JAX-ORL-MIA
(leave TPA-ORL-MIA to Brightline)
 #1519449  by mtuandrew
 
My guesses if five:
-Empire Builder
-California Zephyr
-Southwest Chief because he got a bloody nose from trying to cut it
-Coast Starlight though maybe curtailed?
-Auto Train

If ten, the above plus probably:
-Texas Eagle
-Silver Star or Silver Meteor, probably the Star
-Crescent though possibly curtailed to NYP-ATL as a day train
(-Lake Shore Ltd, but this is liable to be split into NYP-BUF and BUF-CLE-CHI)
(-City of New Orleans but liable to be split at Memphis)

Transfer at PGH for the corridorized Capitol Limited (CHI-PGH and PGH-WAS), take a bus bridge between CHW and CIN, transfer at MEM for the corridorized City of New Orleans, take a bus bridge from ABQ or FTW to El Paso and from Flagstaff to Phoenix and Maricopa.

Anderson doesn’t seem particularly concerned about small towns losing service, so I think he would risk the loss of the Sunset Limited.
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