If you could restore a defunct Amtrak route

[gokeefe]

Interesting to consider that a 110 MPH route in Michigan has somehow improved the odds of one day seeing direct Detroit - New York Service again. I never ever would have imagined that it mattered.

[gokeefe]

News: Atlanta to Dallas service coming, potentially within three years, MS Governor on board, local officials as well .... see this post.

[Greg Moore]

News: Atlanta to Dallas service coming, potentially within three years, MS Governor on board, local officials as well .... see this post.

Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it.

As mentioned in the other thread, just not likely for a lot of reasons.

[mtuandrew]

One more on the topic of a resuscitated Niagara Rainbow via Detroit: if Amtrak would wish to use VIA/CN rails through Ontario (the current VIA passenger route, which as far as I can tell is faster than CP's parallel route), there are only two connections from VIA to the Detroit River Tunnel. One, the Essex Terminal Railway (proudly a 10 mph railroad), is essentially at the doorstep of Windsor VIA but would require a backing move to actually access the current station. The other is the CN Chrysler Spur, which any remaining CN freights take to access the tunnel and CN (ex-CASO) Van de Water Yard. Both appear to be slow routes.

Until Windsor, VIA, the Government of Ontario, CN, and CP come to an agreement on a better station location, maybe the answer is for VIA to cooperate with Amtrak on a station & clearance facility near the Tecumseh Mall.

[Greg Moore]

I was thinking about this further and I think it would make sense to do one of two things here:

1) Extend the first "morning" train into Buffalo on through to Detroit and possibly beyond. It would be strictly a "day" train so no sleepers, etc. needed. I think with one additional train set you could do this.

2) Take my "21st Century Limited" idea and route one of them this way. (There's a thread around here I'm too lazy to find, but the idea is make the BOS-CHI LSL a dedicated train, and then add a 2nd overnight, separate train from NYP-CHI, they both share some of the larger stops (like ALB, Rochester, Buffalo) in common, but some of the smaller ones can alternate stops on.

[CHTT1]

I can just imagine Congressman Mica's reaction to finding out that U.S. taxpayers are funding a passenger train through Canada! And if food is served aboard, he'll actually implode.

[mtuandrew]

I'd pay to see his head explode

Easy solution: Amtrak (and by implication, Congress) funds the two ends; some combination of provincial and federal government and VIA picks up the in-Ontario marginal costs. Sure, there isn't a whole lot of demand for a Niagara Falls - Windsor train that misses Toronto, but there's always GO Transit/Metrolinx to connect Hamilton to Toronto. Stick a single Amfleet/Horizon/LDSL on the end as a sealed coach with a VIA snack cart service - or better yet, add & drop a VIA coach at Niagara Falls and Windsor respectively.

[Greg Moore]

I can just imagine Congressman Mica's reaction to finding out that U.S. taxpayers are funding a passenger train through Canada! And if food is served aboard, he'll actually implode.

Hmm, Good point.

I think this has now become a moral imperative to implement!

[CComMack]

Interesting to consider that a 110 MPH route in Michigan has somehow improved the odds of one day seeing direct Detroit - New York Service again. I never ever would have imagined that it mattered.

Another location that it might help in a counterintuitive fashion is Ohio. Specifically, if the Chicago cleanup train is run via Michigan, serving Detroit at a mildly awkward time, running through Ontario in darkness, and through New York State in daylight, that opens up a possibility of running on the route of the Lake Shore Limited through Ohio in daylight, and through New York State overnight. Ohio would still retain same-day connections in Chicago with the western LDs with the Capitol Limited, although I suppose Erie would lose those connections.

[AgentSkelly]

Running a thru train thru Canada isn't a headache as its liken to be.

Talking with one of my acquaintances at US Customs & Border Protection, a train that does Chicago-Detroit-Buffalo-NYP can have whats called a "transit car" which passengers from Detroit can ride thru Canada back into US. These cars must have all passengers documented and accounted while in in transit and while the cars aren't sealed, they must have some sort of security watch of them by an bonded contractor while transiting.

[gokeefe]

That doesn't sound like anything world ending. Interesting that all of these options seem to be opening back up.

[Backshophoss]

That routing might not be possible,Canada Southern,apart of the NYC that made it to Conrail is torn up in places.
This would have to operate as a VIA train with VIA T&E crews, while crossing Canada,however both CN and CP
don't want to deal with another VIA train on their lines,as it is now.

[bdawe]

Why would this require VIA crews?

[Backshophoss]

With the Canada Southern cut up,the routing from Niagara Falls to Windsor(Detroit) would be longer,
the operating rules and HOS rules in Canada are different enough that using a VIA T&E crew would be
the saner way to go,also the possibilty of being detoured to Sarnia(Port Huron) is covered.
If the train is "sealed " while in Canada,the US OBS crews could work thru.
Currently the T&E and OBS crews change at the border for the Maple Leaf service.

[mtuandrew]

Backshophoss: longer, but a 100 mph CN/VIA (ex-Grand Trunk) routing would undoubtedly be faster than a non-abandoned-but-downgraded CASO routing.

As for running open vs. sealed, it'd benefit both Amtrak and VIA (and their respective governments) to open a few Rainbow cars intra-Ontario and for USA-Canada service. A VIA subsidy essentially reduces the running cost through Ontario to zero for Amtrak (instead of costing Amtrak a bundle to negotiate directly with CN sans guaranteed access.) It allows Amtrak to use its preexisting Michigan and New York crew bases rather than needing to establish new crew bases for a cross-Ontario run, and meanwhile VIA can use its own crew bases. It means both Amtrak and VIA can increase ridership from cross-border travelers (which looks good to the powers-that-be in Washington and Ottawa), and VIA gets to offer late night cross-province service. And, since it'd be late at night, only a few cars would need to be unsealed in Ontario - no need for a cafe since it would be after-hours, just a coach and maybe a sleeper. It's a win-win-win-win-win (AMTK, VIA, Canada, USA, Govt of ONT) situation.

Who knew that the Rainbow would actually be something worth considering?