• Amtrak DMU / RDC Potential Operation Discussion

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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  by mtuandrew
Other section-of-a-long-distance options for DMU service:
-California Zephyr DEN-Cheyenne; SLC-Idaho Falls; OMA-Sioux City-Sioux Falls; Albia?-Des Moines
-Southwest Chief La Junta-Pueblo, onward to DEN if possible; Newton-Topeka; a Peoria branch
-Crescent BHM-Huntsville and BHM-Montgomery
-Texas Eagle or City of New Orleans STL-MEM

The nice thing is, if meeting at a location to run jointly and the DMU is on time and the main train is late, the DMU can continue on the main train’s schedule. Same if reversed.

And yes, ideally CHI-MKE-GBY would be a stand-alone Northland Hiawatha.
  by Pensyfan19
I would consider one of the following (NOTICE: This may be a bit long to read):

1: One daily roundtrip
2: Two daily round trips
3: Three daily roundtrips
4: Four daily roundtrips
+: Additional overnight service (consist includes one locomotive, one sleeper and/or
coach car)
@: Consist includes one locomotive, one baggage car (optional), four coaches and/or
dome cars (use of dome cars is optional), one café, and one observation car
#: Consist includes one locomotive, two coaches, and one café car (optional use of self propelled railcars)

1. The Twin Cities 400 from Chicago to St. Paul via Wyeville, WI (Chicago and North
Western) ²@
2. The Minnesota 400 from Chicago to Mankato MN (Chicago and North Western) ¹@
3. The Peninsula 400 from Chicago to Ishpeming, MI (Chicago and North Western) ¹@
4. The Flambeau 400 from Chicago to Ashland, WI (Chicago and North Western) ¹@
5. The Ashland Limited from Chicago to Ashland, WI via New London, WI (Chicago and
North Western) ¹@
6. The Namekagon from St. Paul, MN to Ashland, WI (Chicago and North Western) ²#
7. The Copper County Limited from Chicago to Calumet, MI (Milwaukee Road) ¹@
8. North Woods Hiawatha from Chicago to Minocqua, WI (Milwaukee Road) ¹@
9. Arrow from Chicago to Omaha (Milwaukee Road) ¹@+
10. Southwest Limited from Chicago to Kansas City via Davenport, IA (Milwaukee Road)
11. Peoria Rocket from Chicago to Peoria, IL (Rock Island) ⁴#
12. Zephyr Rocket from St. Louis to Minneapolis (Rock Island and Burlington Route) ²@+
13. Ozark State Zephyr from St. Louis to Kansas City via Mexico, MO (Burlington Route)
14. Silver Streak Zephyr from Lincoln, NE to Kansas City via Omaha (Burlington Route) ⁴#
15. Twin Cities Zephyr from Chicago to St. Paul via Dubuque, IA (Burlington Route) ²@+
16. Aroostook Flyer from Bangor to Van Buren, ME (Bangor and Aroostook) ²#+
17. The City of Memphis from Nashville to Memphis (Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis)
18. The Butte Special from Salt Lake City to Butte, MT (Union Pacific) ¹#
19. Yellowstone Special from Salt Lake City to West Yellowstone, MT (Union Pacific) ¹@
20. Northwest Special Salt Lake City to Spokane, WA via Walla Walla, WA (Union Pacific)
21. The Black Diamond from New York to Buffalo via Allentown (Lehigh Valley) ²@+
22. Shenandoah from Washington DC to Cincinnati via Parkesburg, WV (Baltimore and
23. Cincinnatian from Cincinnati to Detroit (Baltimore and Ohio) ²@+
24. Winnipegger from St. Paul to Winnipeg (Soo Line) ²@
25. The Laker from Chicago to Duluth, MN via Spencer, WI (Soo Line) ¹@
26. Green Mountain Flyer from Boston to Montreal via Burlington, VT (Rutland Railroad)
27. The Augusta Special from Charlotte to Augusta, GA (Southern Railroad) ²#
28. The Goldenrod from Birmingham, AL to Mobile, AL (Southern Railroad) ¹@
29. The Savanah Special from Charlotte, NC to Savanah, GA (Southern Railroad) ²@
30. Tulsan from Kansas City to Tulsa (Santa Fe Railroad) ²#
31. The Angelo from Dallas to Amarillo via San Angelo, TX (Santa Fe Railroad) ²#
32. Niagara Rainbow from New York to Detroit Via Buffalo (New York Central/Amtrak)
33. Corn Belt Special from Indianapolis to Peoria, IL (New York Central) ²#
34. Timberliner from Detroit to Mackinaw City, MI (New York Central) ²#
35. Erie Express from Pittsburgh, PA to Erie, PA (Pennsylvania Railroad) ¹#
36. The Del-Mar-Va Express from New York to Cape Charles, VA (Pennsylvania Railroad)
37. Northern Arrow from Cincinnati to Mackinaw City, MI (Pennsylvania Railroad) ¹@
38. Buffalo Special from Pittsburgh, PA to Buffalo, NY via Oil City, PA (Pennsylvania
Railroad) ²#+
39. The Fort Hayes from Chicago to Columbus, OH via Logansport, IN (Pennsylvania
Railroad) ²@+
40. Blue Arrow from Cleveland to St. Louis (Nickel Plate Road) ²@+
41. Meadowlark from Chicago to Joppa, IL (Chicago and Eastern Illinois Railroad) ¹#
42. Twin Cities Limited from St. Paul to Omaha (Chicago Great Western Railroad) ¹@+
43. Minute Man from Boston to Albany via Greenfield, MA (Boston and Maine) ²@+
44. Day White Mountains from Boston to Berlin, NH (Boston and Maine) ¹@
45. Delta Express from Memphis to Greenville, MI (Illinois Central) ²#
46. Valley Flyer from Houston to Brownsville, TX (Missouri Pacific) ¹#
47. Delta Eagle from Memphis to New Orleans via Tallulah, LA (Missouri Pacific) ²@+
48. The Texan from Fort Worth, TX to Texarkana, TX via Paris TX (Missouri Pacific) ³#
49. The Southern Scenic from Kansas City to Memphis via Carthage, MO (Missouri Pacific)
50. The Sunflower from St. Louis to Wichita, KS via Rich Hill, MO (Missouri Pacific) ¹@
51. Rouge River from Sacramento to Portland, OR via Ashland, OR (Southern Pacific) ²@+
52. Cannonball from St. louis to Detroit (Wabash Railroad) ²@+
53. Des Moines Limited from St. Louis to Des Moines (Wabash Railroad) ²@
54. Chili Line from Denver to Albuquerque, NM via Antonio, CO (Rio Grande) ¹#
55. The Hummer from Springfield, IL to Kansas City (Gulf Mobile and Ohio) ²#
56. Interstate Express from Philadelphia to Montreal via Syracuse, NY (multiple roads) ¹@
57. The State of Maine Express from New York to Portland via Worchester, MA (multiple
roads) ²@
58. Connecticut Yankee from New York to Quebec via Wells River, VT (multiple roads) ¹@
59. [Currently Unnamed] Springfield, IL to Cincinnati (Baltimore and Ohio) ²#
60. [Currently Unnamed] Beardstown, IL to Shawneetown, IL (Baltimore and Ohio) ¹#
61. [Currently Unnamed] Pittsburgh, PA to Kenova, WV (Baltimore and Ohio) ²#
62. [Currently Unnamed] Cincinnati to Chicago via Peru, IN (Chesapeake and Ohio) ¹#
63. [Currently Unnamed] Port Huron, MI to Ludington, MI (Pere Marquette) ²#
64. [Currently Unnamed] Phoenix to Flagstaff (Santa Fe Railroad) ²#
65. [Currently Unnamed] El Paso, TX to Amarillo, TX via Clovis, NM (Santa Fe Railroad)
66. [Currently Unnamed] Dodge City, KS to Amarillo via Boise City, OK (Santa Fe
Railroad) ²#
67. [Currently Unnamed] Newton, KS to Garden City, KS via Great Bend, KS (Santa Fe
Railroad) ²#
68. [Currently Unnamed] Los Angeles to Phoenix via Cadiz, CA (Santa Fe Railroad) ³@+
69. [Currently Unnamed] La Junta, CO to Amarillo via Boise City, OK (Santa Fe Railroad)
70. [Currently Unnamed] Newton, KS to Omaha via Superior, NE (Santa Fe and Union
Pacific) ²#
71. [Currently Unnamed] Jackson, MS to Gulfport, MS (Illinois Central) ²#
72. [Currently Unnamed] Jackson, MS to Natchez, MS (Illinois Central) ²#
73. [Currently Unnamed] Shreveport, LA to Birmingham, AL (Illinois Central) ²@
74. [Currently Unnamed] Memphis to Louisville (Illinois Central) ²@
75. [Currently Unnamed] Chicago to Cairo, IL (New York Central) ¹#
76. [Currently Unnamed] Albany to Ottawa via Syracuse, NY (New York Central) ²@+
77. [Currently Unnamed] Toledo to Charleston, WV (New York Central) ¹#
78. [Currently Unnamed] South Bend, IN to Galesburg, IL via Kankakee, IL (New York
Central) ²#
79. [Currently Unnamed] Sioux Falls, SD to Cedar Rapids, IA (Rock Island) ¹#
80. [Currently Unnamed] Liberal, KS to Amarillo, TX (Rock Island) ¹#
81. [Currently Unnamed] Harrisburg, PA to Rochester, NY (Pennsylvania Railroad) ²#
82. [Currently Unnamed] Des Moines to Spirit Lake, IA (Milwaukee Road) ¹#
83. [Currently Unnamed] Milwaukee to Minneapolis via Calmar, IA (Milwaukee Road) ¹@
84. [Currently Unnamed] Aberdeen, SD to Sioux Falls, SD (Milwaukee Road) ¹#
85. [Currently Unnamed] Sioux Falls, SD to Milwaukee (Milwaukee Road) ²@+
86. [Currently Unnamed] Williamsburg, NC to Columbia, SC (Atlantic Coast Line) ¹@
87. [Currently Unnamed] Spartanburg, SC to Port Royal, SC (Atlantic Coast Line) ¹#
88. [Currently Unnamed] Florence, SC to Atlanta via Augusta, GA (Atlantic Coast Line ) ³@
89. [Currently Unnamed] Alliance, NE to Denver, CO (Burlington Route) ¹#
90. [Currently Unnamed] Omaha to Quincy, IL (Burlington Route) ²#
91. [Currently Unnamed] Springfield, IL to Nashville via Paducah, KY (Burlington Route)
92. [Currently Unnamed] Des Moines to Hawarden, IA via Sioux Rapids, IA (Chicago and
North Western) ²#
93. [Currently Unnamed] Omaha to Rapid City, SD via Long Pine, NE (Chicago and North
Western) ¹@
94. [Currently Unnamed] Omaha to Minneapolis via Alton, IA (Chicago and North Western)
95. [Currently Unnamed] Harrisburg to Roanoke, VA via Hagerstown, MD (Norfolk and
Western) ¹@
96. [Currently Unnamed] Charlotte, NC to Roanoke via Winston-Salem, NC (Norfolk and
Western) ²@
97. [Currently Unnamed] Denver to Durango, CO (Rio Grande) ²#
98. [Currently Unnamed] Salt Lake City to Marysville, UT (Rio Grande) ¹#
99. [Currently Unnamed] Wilmington, NC to Charlotte, NC via Rockingham, NC (Seaboard
Air Line) ²#
100.[Currently Unnamed] Savanah GA to Montgomery, AL (Seaboard Air Line) ²#
101.[Currently Unnamed] Charleston, SC to Columbia, SC via Florence, SC (Seaboard Air
Line) ²#
102.[Currently Unnamed] Calgary to Billings, MT (Great Northern) ¹@
103.[Currently Unnamed] Little Rock to Port Arthur, TX via Shreveport (Kansas City
Southern) ²#
104.[Currently Unnamed] Houston to Shreveport, LS (Southern Pacific) ¹#
105.[Currently Unnamed] Kansas City to Stockton, KS (Missouri Pacific) ¹#
106.[Currently Unnamed] Greensboro, NC to Richmond, VA (Southern Railroad) ¹#
107.[Currently Unnamed] Greensboro, NC to Norfolk, VA (Southern Railroad) ¹#
108.Currently Unnamed] Atlanta to Cincinnati via Cleveland, TN (Louisville and Nashville)
109.[Currently Unnamed] St. Paul to International Falls, MN (Northern Pacific) ¹#
110.[Currently Unnamed] St. Paul to Bismarck, ND via Hankinson, ND (Soo Line) ¹#
111.[Currently Unnamed] Thief River Falls, MN to Kenmare, ND via Egeland, ND (Soo
Line) ¹#
112.[Currently Unnamed] Oklahoma City to Amarillo via Floydada, TX (Frisco Railroad) ²#
113.[Currently Unnamed] Kansas city to Ellsworth, KS via Wichita, KS (Frisco Railroad) ¹#
114.[Currently Unnamed] Temple, TX to Wichita Falls, TX (Missouri Kansas Texas) ²#
115.[Currently Unnamed] Houston to San Antonio via Smithville, TX (Missouri Kansas
Texas) ²#
116.[Currently Unnamed] Fort Worth, TX to Woodward, OK via Altus, OK (Missouri
Kansas Texas) ¹#
117.[Currently Unnamed] Montreal to Portland, ME via Island Pond, VT (Grand Trunk
Western) ¹@+
118.[Currently Unnamed] Albany to Buffalo via Elmira, NY (Delaware and
Hudson/Lackawanna) ²@+
  by Rockingham Racer
I like the idea of expansion, but let's be realistic: the host railroad[s] need to be involved in any plan for an increase or new service which uses their right-of-way. Mobilizing local leaders and members of Congress seems to be a given as well. Not an impossible task, but not an easy one either, it seems.
  by Rockingham Racer
mtuandrew wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:43 pm Pensy: not all of those routes even exist anymore, let alone in useful shape. Check a map and try again!
Last edited by Rockingham Racer on Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by Tadman
I'm curious where that list came from. South Bend to Kankakee was pulled up decades ago. Betcha NS wishes Conrail hadn't pulled that trigger. For 20 years Chicago has been so crowded.
  by Pensyfan19
It was a long list of proposed routes which I sent to Amtrak (and was quickly rejected for obvious reasons), but I did analyze most of these routes and saw that most of the right of ways for these abandoned lines are either trails or pathways which can easily be reactivated or can be relocated so that it does not disrupt developments along the original right of way. I made the document as a compiled list of nearly every single discontinued passenger train route in the U.S. (accomplished by researching old timetables of every class I at the time) over 130 miles in length, as well as combining a few discontinued routes into one or two different lines.
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:15 am "Been there done that", Mr. West Point.

Amtrak operated their SPV-2000's SPF-WAS in the matter you immediately outlined. Even with their rooftop cooling gear, they had clearance to operate through NYP.

But it sure seemed like a "waste" to me for each one-way trip, to have the capital costs of the propulsion gear used for 62 miles only to be "draged" for another 299.
GBN and Everyone:

The through service using the CT SPV-2000 cars was to Philadelphia
and NOT Washington from Springfield with the car placed on the
rear of the connecting train from/to Boston at New Haven.

The main reason was so the folks at the Budd Company could keep
an eye on them with further maintenance at Red Lion if necessary...

The Amtrak April 24 to October 29, 1983 timetable lists these BOS-PHL
trains with connecting SPG service:

#193 Benjamin Franklin: Leaves BOS 5:30 PM; Arrives NHV 8:32 PM
Leaves NHV 8:42 PM; Leaves NYP at 10:30 PM; Arrives PHL 11:58 PM
Connecting train #493 leaves SPG at 6:56 PM arrives NHV at 8:32 PM.
#193 and #493 do not run on Sunday.

#190 Benjamin Franklin: Leaves PHL at 6:40 AM; Leaves NYP at 8:25 AM
Arrives NHV at 10:10 AM; Leaves NHV 10:20 AM; Arrives BOS at 1:19 PM.
Connecting train #490 leaves NHV 10:15 AM Arrives SPG at 11:47 AM.
#190 and #490 run daily.

I remember another time spotting two of the MTA/MNCR SPV2000 cars
on a Philadelphia-bound train at NYP and was informed upon curiosity
that these cars must have been so bad that they were going back to the
Budd Company to be maintained even with a car shortage (mid 1980s)
on the Harlem and Hudson Lines in diesel territory.

The MTA version of the "Seldom-Propelled Vehicles" was easy to spot
with the blue window stripe - and after they were retired they ended
up in the Croton Harmon boneyard and eventually sold for scrap.
At least the CDOT cars got converted to the "Constitution Liners"
which was a good move...MACTRAXX
  by west point
DMUs at Tampa instead of the Star ? No way. You realize Tampa Star handles more passengers than even Atlanta on the Crescent ?
  by Jeff Smith
WP, did not know that. Just thought it might make sense to prevent the back-tracking the Star does.
  by Tadman
west point wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:28 pm DMUs at Tampa instead of the Star ? No way. You realize Tampa Star handles more passengers than even Atlanta on the Crescent ?
Perhaps the answer in that case is having a car switch at Lorton where Miami and Tampa sections of the Star combine for the trip north. I suggest Lorton rather than Lakeland as there are plenty of Amtrak personnel on-site that can make connections and troubleshoot equipment. There's a switcher as well.
  by MattW
How many people does the Star handle south of Tampa? Maybe the option there then is to run the DMU between Tamp and Miami.
  by mtuandrew
MattW wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:13 am How many people does the Star handle south of Tampa? Maybe the option there then is to run the DMU between Tamp and Miami.
Or to curtail the Star at Tampa and offer seamless booking to Brightline at Orlando, once that option is available. Meteor can still go through.
  by Jeff Smith
I like the idea of terminating at Tampa with a return trip that afternoon, if you restore the Silver Palm from it's Palmetto status terminating at Savannah, and adjust it's schedule so it covers different areas at different times. I'd adjust all the Atlantic Coast Service times, honestly.

But to bring us back on topic, I'd add RDC's at Orlando and Tampa to make connections.
  by Tadman
What we speak of was once a thing, SAL/SCL ran a doodlebug to quieter points in Florida to meet the Silvers.

Somehow they took something with the shape of an Electroliner or Zephyr and made it about as appealing as a boxcar.
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