Amtrak Hiawatha Discussion: Chicago - Milwaukee and Possible Extensions

[EricL]

Okay. The only thing you have going for you here is this: Midway is a relatively small, easy, non-congested airport. Barring origination or enroute flight delays, it is not altogether uncommon for flights into MDW to arrive ahead of schedule.

But that would be the only thing you have to go on. Your flight would have to be EARLY for there to be ANY hope of making this connection. Even if it is ON-TIME, and you are the first person in line to disembark the plane, I guarantee you will not make it from the plane gate to CUS track 17/19 within the space of 30 minutes. (I say 30 rather than 35, because the Amtrak policy for Chicago is that the gates close five minutes before train time, and they are quite strict about it. You're probably aware of this practice since you took the Wolverine last year.)

[lstone19]

For the four years I've been Metra commuting into Chicago and been able to observe the Hiawatha, equipment patterns have been consistent: two six-car sets with an P42 (or P40) at the west end and usually a cabbage F40 on the east end. Each would do 3.5 round-trips each day (one on 329-332-333-336-337-340-341 and the other on 330-331-334-335-338-339-342) and flip sides each day (except Sunday when 329 and 330 don't run).

That's changed in the last few weeks. Now it appears most days, 335 and 338 are handled by a third set (of late, with just five cars including an Amfleet in the middle) while the train that arrived as 334 waits 4.5 hours until 339 (and maybe this third set does something else as well but I haven't seen it). My guess is due to track construction, they're taking delays (I've seen 338 arriving late a lot) and they're doing this to insure 339 (the "Commuter Hiawatha" - 5:08pm departure from Chicago) gets out on time (I've heard 339 is Amtrak's #1 priority for an on-time departure due to commuter complaints when it doesn't plus if it doesn't, it ends up behind Metra locals - leaving at 5:08pm, it has a clear shot to Rondout thanks to the previous MD-N departure being at 4:48pm).

[EricL]

yes, you are correct, the purpose is to protect on-time 5:08 departure.
hopefully, when Metra tie gang wraps things up in another week or so, this will no longer be necessary.

[lstone19]

The 335-338 "tripper" set continues and even more strangely, this week it has Amtrak's one and only dome car in it. I didn't even think it was normally in the midwest this time of year.

[Tadman]

Confirmed - here's pics. I had lunch across the river and saw it parked at CUS so I grabbed a few pics.

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=55F4910C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=56020DF9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, the entire consist is a bit odd - (3) Horizon, (1) amfleet cafe/biz class, (1) full dome.

[lstone19]

It's a new level of oddness today. From north to south at CUS today, the 1:05p departure with the extra set has a P42, an Amcafe, two Horizon coaches, Ocean View (the Great Dome), another Horizon coach, and ... that's it. No cabbage unit, no second engine. Where do they turn it in Milwaukee?

[EricL]

trailing unit originally assigned was a bad order and had to be replaced. you must have seen the train in between removal of B/O and replacement of new.

as information, only turning facility remotely close by Milwaukee is the wye at Sturtevant. so no real options for normal Amtrak service besides push-pull.

[electricron]

trailing unit originally assigned was a bad order and had to be replaced. you must have seen the train in between removal of B/O and replacement of new.

as information, only turning facility remotely close by Milwaukee is the wye at Sturtevant. so no real options for normal Amtrak service besides push-pull.

My viewing of Google Earth suggest there's a wye in Milwaukee's port area around a mile or so southeast of the Milwaukee train station. I wouldn't want to regularly use that wye, but it could be used in a pinch.

[Tadman]

I believe that's UP - wouldn't that mean the crew has to be qualified over a different main and/or rulebook from CP?

[electricron]

I believe that's UP - wouldn't that mean the crew has to be qualified over a different main and/or rulebook from CP?

Maybe. I'll admit I don't know which track is owned by whom.
But in a pinch I believe Amtrak can find someway to turn a train.

[EricL]

The wye in question is at St. Francis on the UP. The only way to get there from the CP is via the Bayview (Stowell) line from KK Bridge. This is a freight spur toward the Port, which used to serve a few industries along the way; as far as I know, it has never been used for passenger movements. The UP from St Francis on north is all FRA excepted track and the CP really should be too, considering the awful shape the track is in. Nobody from Amtrak is qualified over here and most probably aren't aware it even exists. I certainly wouldn't want to take passenger equipment over it, especially if that happened to include someone's very expensive private varnish.
Wying C&M Amtrak trains happens extremely rarely as it is, so no point for every employee to perpetually maintain UP book of rules & taking yearly qualification trips out that way.
Whenever it has been necessary and been done, it has been done at Sturtevant.

Attached is a picture of the CP Bayview line from 2009. The "main" track (not really; everything here is under rule 6.28 - Other Than Main Track) is on the right

IMG_0019.jpg (122.12 KiB) Viewed 3810 times

[Tadman]

I think we've established beyond a reasonable doubt here that:

1. There is no way to wye a train in MKE despite availability of track configuration.
2. There is no need to wye a train in MKE as the train in Chicago was just having a power swap and rather than drag the entire set to 14 street, they did it at CUS.

[Jeff Smith]

I really didn't see any over-arching topic on the Hiawatha, so I thought I'd go ahead and start one. I really don't know much about the route, outside of equipment controversies.

So here's some news to seed the topic: adding late night frequencies.

Progressive Railroading

Brief, fair-use quote:

Amtrak adds Saturday night routes between Milwaukee and Chicago

Amtrak has temporarily added more Saturday evening trips on its Hiawatha route between Milwaukee and Chicago.

From Oct. 3, 2015, through Jan. 2, 2016, trains running on Saturdays will depart on from Chicago at 11:10 p.m. and from Milwaukee at 10:40 p.m.

The new "fall-holiday schedule" is aimed at allowing passengers more time for shopping, dining and entertainment, Amtrak officials said in a press release.

[EricL]

Here is the press release about the new weekend trains. The eastbound will turn off of 341 and leave Milwaukee at 10:40p. The westbound will turn off of 342 and leave Chicago at 11:10p. It will be interesting to see how successful the late frequencies will be: three months is honestly not a very long time to be able to build up a measurable ridership base.

Work on the new Milwaukee depot train shed and platforms is finally starting to "look like something". I don't have any recent photos of my own, so here's one turned up by a quick online search, from a month ago. Since then: all of the outer support beams have been put in place, about 2/3 of the roof trusses are in, the elevated mezzanine is all the way across, and the outer shells of the elevator shafts are in place. There will eventually be escalators down from the mezzanine, in addition to the elevs and the steps. About half of the platform work is completed, but unfortunately no single platform is 100% complete - they have been doing it piecemeal, so each island has sections of done and not-done. The old underground transfer tunnel has been reconstructed with stair steps replacing the old too-steep-for-ADA ramps - not sure why they kept it in the first place, since it's now redundant with the elevated mezzanine...? Sure, okay.

CP has come in and refreshed the trackbed with spot tie replacement and some new ballast. They had to raise the track up to be compatible with the height of the new mid-high platform sections. Interestingly, the original 1965 kludgy interlocking signal configuration is apparently going to remain into perpetuity.

The entire project is just shy of 50% at this point, and total completion probably won't be realized until approximately June 2016.

Aesthetic improvements I'd like to see done, but (so far as I know) aren't on the docket:
- the entire half of the facility that's underneath the post office is going to remain dark and dingy and awful, fancy new platforms & lighting or not. At least sandblast the old concrete walls and support pillars to freshen up their appearance. painting the roof white (to match the new shed) would be nice, but I understand how that would be a pretty impractical idea - it would be filthy with diesel soot within a month.
- I'm not aware of any scheduled work to replace the rear facade of the depot building. Such remains original - it wasn't redone as part of the 2007 building renovation. It needs to match the rest of the building, or else it's going to stick out like a sore thumb. I really hope I'm proven wrong on this one.

[Suburban Station]

Eric who is doing the depot work? (Amtrak, cp, etc)