All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

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rcthompson04
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by rcthompson04 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:58 am

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2019/07/a ... edule.html
Amtrak Keystone Service trains will operate on a modified schedule Friday as work continues largely to fix the overhead power system that was damaged by a round of storms Tuesday night.

Per a release sent out Thursday night by Amtrak, there will be 17 Keystone trains running Friday between Harrisburg and Philadelphia, nine westbound and eight eastbound. Trains 42 & 43, the Pennsylvanian, is also operating daily to and from Pittsburgh, via Harrisburg and Philadelphia.

MACTRAXX
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by MACTRAXX » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:40 pm

gp80mac wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:22 am
rcthompson04 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:41 am
Does anyone think it is possible for Amtrak to replace 70 miles of overhead wire in 24 hours with no notice?
perhaps we're taking 70 miles of wire down too literally? Maybe it was multiple spots of wire damage in a 70-mile distance?
GP80, RCT and Everyone: The mention of this 70 mile catenary outage caught my eye also...

What I do think happened was that 70 miles of route lost power in the aftermath of the mentioned violent
thunderstorms. Which areas of the route between PAO and HAR had the most damage? Where was the
location of the downed catenary pole (or poles if there was more than one) if anyone knows?

In the aftermath of 70 miles of category wire being physically down there would likely be no service on the
route because of the downed wires - and would take some time to move the wires around in a way to allow
train service to resume in some form.

As a comparison back in June 2000 a severe thunderstorm knocked out the SEPTA RRD Lansdale-Doylestown
Line washing out the Sandy Run bridge just south of Fort Washington Station. One catenary tower along with
the PECO overbuild fell taking about a half mile of overhead wire down above the two tracks with it.

SEPTA RRD was able to restore the route on an emergency basis in about six weeks time - this included
restoration of the overhead catenary and the overbuild lines.

Is (or was) Amtrak using diesels to run all PHL-HAR trains?
Are there locations along the route in which trains can encounter delay due to overhead wire/pole work?
MACTRAXX
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ThirdRail7
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by ThirdRail7 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:41 pm

TheOneKEA wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:26 pm
Was the 138kV transmission system ever interrupted during the storms? Or was the catenary the only thing affected? I’m curious because of the age of the catenary supports. If the catenary lines parted because of the storm, could the sudden unloading of the support poles cause them to weaken?
Yes. They are around 80 years old.

Acela150 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:37 pm
rcthompson04 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:09 pm
mtuandrew wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:36 pm
Glad someone else caught that too - I could see “down” as in took out power for 70 miles because of substation failure, not “down” as in yanked it all to the ground. There have to be wire junctions every few miles designed to reduce the impact of weather or snagged pans, no?
There is no way 70 miles of wire were pulled down.
This is my thought as well. The Main Line is 104 miles.

The only logical rebuttal I can think of is that the total amount of overhead they replaced equaled 70 miles.
Someone gets it. Let's just round it out to make it easy.

Let's say that damage occurs over 1 mile.

In the area of Downs, there are 4 tracks.

So, if everything comes down and needs replacement, you have:

2 static lines
4 transmission lines
4 messenger wires
4 auxiliary wires
4 trolley wires
2 signal lines

The replacement catenary for the one mile section equals 20 miles of wire and that doesn't take into account guy wires, the catenary spans, the body spans or steady spans or steady arms.

With multiple areas impacted, 70 miles of wire is plausible.
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Acela150
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by Acela150 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:06 pm

NS 34A put 11 cars on the ground at MP 242 aka Horseshoe Curve. No word if 42/43 for 7/6 will be effected as of now.

RRspatch
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by RRspatch » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:08 am

Acela150 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:06 pm
NS 34A put 11 cars on the ground at MP 242 aka Horseshoe Curve. No word if 42/43 for 7/6 will be effected as of now.
Video from Virtual Railfan showing the derailed cars right at the curve.

https://youtu.be/lhdxlqAT2uE
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JimBoylan
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by JimBoylan » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:48 am

On https://www.amtrak.com/track-your-train.html, Eastbound Pennsylvanian is coming out of the East end of the Curve at 10:36 a.m. at 24 m.p.h., at 10:41 a.m., it's coming down the hill at 40 m.p.h., and is due in Altoona in 1 minute!

ThirdRail7
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by ThirdRail7 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:43 pm

Acela150 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:06 pm
NS 34A put 11 cars on the ground at MP 242 aka Horseshoe Curve. No word if 42/43 for 7/6 will be effected as of now.
All things considered, 42 didn't take too much of a hit. 43 is already dragging but will hopefully get through the area with minimal delays.
I want my road foreman!

Acela150
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by Acela150 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:21 pm

43 took a big hit. NS had them sit in Altoona for almost 2 hours waiting for MOW to give up Main 3. 43 was the first train over Main 3 at 10 MPH.

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STrRedWolf
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by STrRedWolf » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:03 pm

Latest word from RailRide going on 42 right now is the track is repaired and there are no issues so far. He’s updating here: https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/9199907/

I’ll be going through it tomorrow myself.
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Acela150
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by Acela150 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:07 pm

The work wrapped up on Sunday afternoon and the speed restriction has been removed.

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STrRedWolf
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by STrRedWolf » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:06 am

On 42(9) now. It took the Horseshoe Curve a bit slower and there was a freight train parked on the outer track. At Altoona now and in tolerance for on time.

Update 1:30p: passed Elizabethtown and Amtrak has a track offline to cut down a cliff and stabilize the ground there before it spills onto the track.

1:45p the roughest track I’ve encountered going into Lancaster producing a comical tweet to Amtrak. I’m so glad I’m not drawing on this trip. VVViiiBBBrrrAAAtttIIIIoooNNN cccIIItttYYY...
"The last and final stop is BALTIMORE PENN STATION." I can has MARC V?

rcthompson04
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by rcthompson04 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:08 pm

Another article on providing more service between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/trans ... 1908200152

It sounds like Norfolk Southern plans on making this as difficult as possible. I don't blame them as the Pittsburgh Line is congested with freight already.

gokeefe
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by gokeefe » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:34 pm

I think these estimates will open the door to discussions of alternatives such as extension of the Pennsylvanian to Cleveland or further exploration of new routes such as Scranton.
gokeefe

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STrRedWolf
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by STrRedWolf » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:06 pm

rcthompson04 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:08 pm
Another article on providing more service between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/trans ... 1908200152

It sounds like Norfolk Southern plans on making this as difficult as possible. I don't blame them as the Pittsburgh Line is congested with freight already.
I can see how it could be expensive. For faster service you got to get folks on the other side of the tracks. Three track service Pittsburgh-Harrisburg? Possible, but you'll need to tunnel/dig out more mountain. At least the Horseshoe curve is still three track wide.
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Suburban Station
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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Post by Suburban Station » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:11 pm

Are these numbers ns is asking for? It keeps saying it's not inclusive of ns.

Perhaps start by launching a latrobe/greensburg service and extending some keystones to williamsport and Carlisle
The Pennsylvanian should absolutely be extended further west as well

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