exvalley wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:19 pmWell right now you still do have your private facilities. When the new Viewliners come on board you will still have your own sink in the roomette and your own bathroom in the bedroom. I think Amtrak should definitely consider touch-free facilities in all bathrooms. To be really safe, use a tissue to open the door and throw it away.SouthernRailway wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:02 pm Why is Amtrak not putting the new sleepers on trains ASAP and advertising its private rooms heavily?Private room but public bathroom. The new cars are worse in that regard.
In the Age of Coronavirus, a private room, compared to an open-plan airplane, is pretty tempting.
I am flying today and the plane is pretty empty (lots of space between people), but people probably are rightfully concerned about crowds.
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And whether or not you have full washroom facilities in the room, surely a private room is marketable these days, and preferable to sitting in an open-plan plane and with people breathing on you from 2 feet behind your head.
SouthernRailway wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:55 pm And whether or not you have full washroom facilities in the room, surely a private room is marketable these days, and preferable to sitting in an open-plan plane and with people breathing on you from 2 feet behind your head.Planes are actually unfriendly to viruses. The air is extremely dry and it’s recycled every 2-3 minutes.
However, the proximity to others is an issue.
So... viruses are much happier and live longer on the train. But you can isolate better in a sleeper.
Take your pick.
https://www.who.int/ith/mode_of_travel/tcd_aircraft/en/
LOL private room, with recycled air that takes intake air from outside. Great idea, it shares with all the other rooms. If you saw what was in between the walls in a viewliner, you may bring some of your own lysol wipes more often. Airplanes too.
And Tadman id like to inform you that you used the magic word. Incentive. THIS DOES NOT EXIST ON RAILROADS. In fact it barely exists in business today except for nonsense at stores to try and get people to shop.
And Tadman id like to inform you that you used the magic word. Incentive. THIS DOES NOT EXIST ON RAILROADS. In fact it barely exists in business today except for nonsense at stores to try and get people to shop.
No good deed goes unpunished.
Incentive is at the heart of my beef with bigger companies and federal agencies. There is little. I will say that there are guys that are incentivized by personal pride, both in quality of work and more basic items like time keeping and safety. I have a lot of respect for engine crew as the job requires a lot of skill and those guys and gals take a lot of pride in their ability to move the train smoothly and safely. But the reverse is true for some yard crews - they don't interface with passengers and have no incentive to move smoothly, so when they bring a train into the yard in Chicago, they back it in and take a hike. All it would take was 90 second more to throw it in reverse, back up 10' to stretch the train, so when it departs, the slack doesn't run out like a freight train.
Many guys in my industry will drive overnight or work in rough conditions because many of us are owners of small companies (not get rich owners, just a piece that makes it a bit easier to pay the mortgage) or are incentive comp sales or repair. We have to interface with front line customers all the time. We know that an extra hour might get overtime, or another sale, or a little something at the end of the year from the boss or customer. We push ourselves.
That's why it's so infuriating to see a cafe guy having a fifteen minute break while people wait, and then an hour later he's relaxing when the rush dies down. Sam Malone wouldn't do that at Cheers. Bartenders sell beers when people walk in, and chill when nobody is around. And they make more money that way!
I'm not trying to bust on unions. I see a solution where the working man makes more, I get my food faster, and Amtrak/taxpayer loses a bit less. How is this bad????
And if a union working man makes more money, more guys will want to join that union. So the union wins, too.
Many guys in my industry will drive overnight or work in rough conditions because many of us are owners of small companies (not get rich owners, just a piece that makes it a bit easier to pay the mortgage) or are incentive comp sales or repair. We have to interface with front line customers all the time. We know that an extra hour might get overtime, or another sale, or a little something at the end of the year from the boss or customer. We push ourselves.
That's why it's so infuriating to see a cafe guy having a fifteen minute break while people wait, and then an hour later he's relaxing when the rush dies down. Sam Malone wouldn't do that at Cheers. Bartenders sell beers when people walk in, and chill when nobody is around. And they make more money that way!
I'm not trying to bust on unions. I see a solution where the working man makes more, I get my food faster, and Amtrak/taxpayer loses a bit less. How is this bad????
And if a union working man makes more money, more guys will want to join that union. So the union wins, too.
The new Acela: It's not Aveliable.
Tadman, agreed.
I fly constantly. Some railroad people love to bash airlines and their employees, but I find crews on American Airlines, and ground staff, almost uniformly helpful and nice (with a few exceptions). Ones in the Southeast are overall wonderful. Sometimes a flight attendant will not want to, for example, give refills on drinks while in flight, but they aren't taking mandatory breaks like cafe car attendants, and true surly ones are rare.
The constantly closing cafe cars and the insane boarding rules at Amtrak are my two biggest gripes about its operations.
I fly constantly. Some railroad people love to bash airlines and their employees, but I find crews on American Airlines, and ground staff, almost uniformly helpful and nice (with a few exceptions). Ones in the Southeast are overall wonderful. Sometimes a flight attendant will not want to, for example, give refills on drinks while in flight, but they aren't taking mandatory breaks like cafe car attendants, and true surly ones are rare.
The constantly closing cafe cars and the insane boarding rules at Amtrak are my two biggest gripes about its operations.
There are unionized restaurants out there where staff still has scheduled breaks, but with somewhat flexible timing. If there’s an unexpected 3pm rush for instance, a manager will instruct servers to hold off on their break for a half hour. Doesn’t violate a contract whatsoever.
I have a feeling it’s not a contractual obligation to have breaks at a set time, but a lack of enforcement. It’s not like the conductor wants to have to keep writing people up, but they may need to do so.
I have a feeling it’s not a contractual obligation to have breaks at a set time, but a lack of enforcement. It’s not like the conductor wants to have to keep writing people up, but they may need to do so.
exvalley wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:26 pm Planes are actually unfriendly to viruses. The air is extremely dry and it’s recycled every 2-3 minutes.People don't realize, or don't want to accept, this. Jet engines make lots and lots of air, and the pressurization system gets a chunk of it. "bleed air", it's used for anti ice, surge control, and pressurization. The 787 has electrically driven compressors (hardly new, the 707 and DC-8 had bleed air driven turbo compressors), but is otherwise 'conventional' (by today's standards). Contrary to what folks think, airliners are not some totally sealed tube. In fact, they have a self adjusting door that maintains pressure. They can stand a good amount of leakage (oldtimers say it was great in the smoking days - tracer the tar tracks on the outside to see the leaks).
Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:38 pmI tell people about this all the time when they complain about the "air conditioning" on airplanes.exvalley wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:26 pm Planes are actually unfriendly to viruses. The air is extremely dry and it’s recycled every 2-3 minutes.People don't realize, or don't want to accept, this. Jet engines make lots and lots of air, and the pressurization system gets a chunk of it. "bleed air", it's used for anti ice, surge control, and pressurization. The 787 has electrically driven compressors (hardly new, the 707 and DC-8 had bleed air driven turbo compressors), but is otherwise 'conventional' (by today's standards). Contrary to what folks think, airliners are not some totally sealed tube. In fact, they have a self adjusting door that maintains pressure. They can stand a good amount of leakage (oldtimers say it was great in the smoking days - tracer the tar tracks on the outside to see the leaks).
No good deed goes unpunished.
I think the beef with airplanes and trains is that it's common space compared to home or automobile.
With a viewliner, even if one has their own cabin, where does the air come from? Trackside direct to cabin? Or is it routed through the hallway?
I've always thought it would be smart to have semi-married pairs of viewliners given that most NYP sleeper trains have 2 sleeper cars. Could reduce hvac to one device ducted to both cars, and perhaps share bathrooms now that cabins are losing toilets. Also share coffee and attendant/his cabin.
With a viewliner, even if one has their own cabin, where does the air come from? Trackside direct to cabin? Or is it routed through the hallway?
I've always thought it would be smart to have semi-married pairs of viewliners given that most NYP sleeper trains have 2 sleeper cars. Could reduce hvac to one device ducted to both cars, and perhaps share bathrooms now that cabins are losing toilets. Also share coffee and attendant/his cabin.
The new Acela: It's not Aveliable.
Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:11 am I think the beef with airplanes and trains is that it's common space compared to home or automobile.First part, yes thats def true.
With a viewliner, even if one has their own cabin, where does the air come from? Trackside direct to cabin? Or is it routed through the hallway?
I've always thought it would be smart to have semi-married pairs of viewliners given that most NYP sleeper trains have 2 sleeper cars. Could reduce hvac to one device ducted to both cars, and perhaps share bathrooms now that cabins are losing toilets. Also share coffee and attendant/his cabin.
The air comes both recirculated as well as fresh air intake from the two ports you see on the side of the car. Unless the fresh air duct is closed, its coming from outside and filtered to the cabin. They do this to bring in fresh air but they also recycle some to pressurize the cabins to force dust and dirt out of the car.
Your 3rd part is completely insane. The cars as it is right now have two HVAC units per car, to support the entire car. If one unit goes down, it can sort of keep the whole car working but at a slightly reduced capacity. In very hot weather, its not the best. if you ever saw what happens when cars shift thru turnouts in penn station you could see why having a duct between two diff rail vehicles would be a horrible idea. Plus, one car freezes up and youd have to shop both cars? Thats another yet absolutely horrible idea. Right now one car gets jammed up its easily swapped out with another car. Married pairs are good for MU commuter cars and subways. Not for long distance trains.
No good deed goes unpunished.
SouthernRailway wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:02 pm Why is Amtrak not putting the new sleepers on trains ASAP and advertising its private rooms heavily?FYI:
In the Age of Coronavirus, a private room, compared to an open-plan airplane, is pretty tempting.
I am flying today and the plane is pretty empty (lots of space between people), but people probably are rightfully concerned about crowds.
As of midday Monday, all rooms on the northbound Auto Train from Sanford, Fla., to Lorton, Va., were sold out for a week until Monday, March 23, except for one roomette . . .
The space crush is likely caused by a combination of “snowbirds” moving their planned migration north up from later spring months and the isolation from others that roomettes, bedrooms, and family rooms afford.
Info from Trains
This is a surprising choice given that driving on a car on the interstate offers some of the best isolation of all. I would guess these are rebookings based on the Walt Disney World (and other Orlando theme parks) closure.
I am not convinced that the snow birds are going to exchange dry sunny Florida (without tourists) for the damp cold Northeast and a drive through the hotspots of New Jersey, New York and Connecticut.
I have been watching for these signs in Maine. Last week based on some observed activity I wondered if we might be seeing some people attempting to move ahead of the virus but I'm not convinced that was actually happenning. Specifically what I saw was some campers on the road (unusual in March) and what looked like a couple of extra U-Haul trucks at the local lot.
Nothing to write home about.
I am not convinced that the snow birds are going to exchange dry sunny Florida (without tourists) for the damp cold Northeast and a drive through the hotspots of New Jersey, New York and Connecticut.
I have been watching for these signs in Maine. Last week based on some observed activity I wondered if we might be seeing some people attempting to move ahead of the virus but I'm not convinced that was actually happenning. Specifically what I saw was some campers on the road (unusual in March) and what looked like a couple of extra U-Haul trucks at the local lot.
Nothing to write home about.
gokeefe
gokeefe wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:21 pmProbably end of the world types heading for the hills. Y2k all over again.
I have been watching for these signs in Maine. Last week based on some observed activity I wondered if we might be seeing some people attempting to move ahead of the virus but I'm not convinced that was actually happenning. Specifically what I saw was some campers on the road (unusual in March) and what looked like a couple of extra U-Haul trucks at the local lot.
Nothing to write home about.
Moderator worldwide railfan , Rail travel & trip reports
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
Me elderly snowbird relatives have decided to stay in Florida. Lots of their neighbors have too.