Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

[Arlington]

So, are we expecting an Alstom Pendolino tilting train? They certainly sell plenty of them in the 250kph/290kph range.

[Jeff Smith]

Let's remember:

Off the shelf is not equal to Custom.

What I mean is, there are pro's and cons. By the time you get done modifying an off-the-shelf HSR coach and power, you may as well have built custom. We've got issues on the NEC from different power supplies, to vertical and horizontal clearance, to crash-worthiness they don't have in Europe. They have a "simplicity of design" factor we don't.

Modifying the existing Acela, which once it got past its teething pains performed fairly well IMO, for 2.0 may prove easier as well. MNRR used that approach with M-8's and M-9's when switching to Kawasaki. And the M-8's had a fair share of teething pains too.

Come up with a list of enhancements, and see what Alstom can do using their expertise. I like the idea of going to people who've actually built the stuff.

[bdawe]

Europeans don't have issues with clearances and power supplies? Alstom's Euroduplex is built to operate on 25 kV 50 hz, 15 kv 16.333 hz, 3 kV DC, and 1.5 kVDC, and if anything NEC clearance requirements are more generous than many Western European standards.

[ExCon90]

Wasn't Alstom the company that was noted for having 4 or 5 contracts in Europe going at the same time, and every one way behind schedule, with equipment failing acceptance tests? At the time an English commentator on railroad subjects coined an anagram--ALMOST.

[Matt Johnson]

So, do we get a sketch or a hint of what this thing might look like?

[Steampowered]

i think njt should buy them for even more express service. They could be rush hour, nyc to princeton junction and trenton. They could even charge a premiun and have the snack car to make money. Heck they could do occasional nyc to philly on occasion.

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

Um, no. The cost premium to run such repurposed custom-design trainsets are lethal for any commuter rail agency. Part of the reason for Amtrak's long feud with Bombardier is that they're borderline too expensive for Amtrak to run with all the complex design hacks Bombardier put into them. Don't forget: the Acela is based on the LRC cars, which are a temperamental experimental 30-year-old design. The Acela cars are later-generation, but still never shed the experimental nature of the design. This is why a second order of that design proved infeasible. Nobody can afford to maintain an LRC-derived car. Hell, VIA can't even afford to maintain the tilt-disabled LRC's.

They had a hell of a run after the bugs were worked out, and established the first successful HSR service in the Western Hemisphere. But they are not rebuildable or repurposeable trainsets with the maint demands of that kludgy design. Whether the new ones are homegrown for the U.S. market or more lightly derived from proven Euro stock, they won't be stuck with the baggage of the LRC's experimental design and the hacks BBD put into it to evolve that design into a different application. The Acela--and its kludgy design--was very much a product of its time, and means to an end for getting Day 1 of HSR established. But the design itself is a dead-end lineage without coattails.

[afiggatt]

So, do we get a sketch or a hint of what this thing might look like?

According to Schumer's press release, the Amtrak board was scheduled to vote on selecting the Alstom bid on Tuesday (today). While what the board is actually doing is giving permission to Amtrak's management to negotiate the final contract terms, Amtrak would not let have Schumer make the announcement if they didn't think the contract was a done deal. So perhaps there will be a joint Amtrak and Alstom press conference with news releases on Wednesday with basic information on the selected Alstom HSR trainset? We'll see.

[David Benton]

Does anybody know if Amtrak got any waivers from FRA for this proposed train set. Sure would be good to see crash energy management accepted in place of buffer strenght.

[Arlington]

Does anybody know if Amtrak got any waivers from FRA for this proposed train set. Sure would be good to see crash energy management accepted in place of buffer strenght.

This whole procurement cycle basically assumed it. I think it has happened or that we're basically assured of it.

The harder part seems to have been the "buy America" provisions, which only ripened as trouble after they pick(ed) a particular vendor.

PS: Where is the press release from the Directors' approval that Schumer led us to believe was coming today?

[Matt Johnson]

Hope it looks as sleek as this.

[Backshophoss]

I would take the story on Yahoo with a grain of salt,Amtrak HAS NOT awarded the contract yet.
Senator Schumer is just making noise and getting a photo op out of this.

[DutchRailnut]

Give Schumer a camera and microphone and his mouth prematurely ejaculates.

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

Give Schumer a camera and microphone and his mouth prematurely ejaculates.

That's...a horrifying image to sip morning coffee to. Even moreso because if it involves the NEC you know Blumenthal is somewhere in the room too.

[afiggatt]

I would take the story on Yahoo with a grain of salt,Amtrak HAS NOT awarded the contract yet.
Senator Schumer is just making noise and getting a photo op out of this.

There is much more than just a story on Yahoo, there are dozens of news articles on Alstom being selected. Senator Schumer issued a press release, there was a press conference/photo op with Schumer and other NY politicians at the Alstom plant in Hormell on Monday. Amtrak is letting Schumer and NY politicians get the press coverage in advance for obvious political reasons. Especially Schumer, who is expected to be succeed Senator Reid as the Senate Democratic leader in January, 2017. That will put Schumer into a position of considerable political power and able to get Amtrak funding for the Gateway project, the NEC, and the national system.

If the Amtrak board did officially vote on selecting Alstom on Tuesday, we may see Amtrak & Alstom press releases and news conferences today (Wednesday).