Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

[R36 Combine Coach]

Unless the Hornell shops are upgraded to have full production on site, Alstom would have a disadvantage. KHI, BBD, CAF and Nippon Sharyo have full assembly and fabrication capabilities at their sites, while Hornell relies on shells shipped from Sao Paolo to the Port of Albany.

[Arlington]

Help me with the Chronology. Is this right?

2014 October Proposals Due
2014 December Bombardier admits they've dropped out
2015 June Schumer asks for DOT to help hurry things up with procurement & financing
2015 September ...Schumer is going to Hornell to reveal Alstom as the winner?

[afiggatt]

Unless the Hornell shops are upgraded to have full production on site, Alstom would have a disadvantage. KHI, BBD, CAF and Nippon Sharyo have full assembly and fabrication capabilities at their sites, while Hornell relies on shells shipped from Sao Paolo to the Port of Albany.

Amtrak applied for a Buy America waiver on aluminum car body shells and high speed brake components last November. FRA webpage with the Amtrak waiver request. Appears that the FRA has still not acted on this waiver request, hence the extended segment of Schumer's press release urging the US DOT and FRA to act on the RIFF loan application and the regulatory and waiver approvals so the contract can be awarded.

Just because a CAF or Nippon Sharyo have "full" assembly and fabrication capabilities, it does not mean that they necessarily have the fabrication capabilities nor the expertise at their US plants for specialized extruded aluminum car shells for HSR trains. As discussed in the waiver request, the economics of developing the fabrication capability for just 28 trainsets and the close to 2 year delay that it would take to develop that capability led Amtrak to submit the request.

[DutchRailnut]

Alstom sure as hell did not make railcars in Hornel for 150 years either.

[The EGE]

As afiggatt points out, extruded aluminum shells are a particularly difficult manufacturing item. Large aluminum extrusions are a relatively new thing - when they were made in 1971, the MBTA's Red Line cars were the largest such extrusions ever made - and they require a lot of expertise to get right. Totally different from building a railcar from smaller parts and sheet metal.

[bostontrainguy]

Pendolino?

http://www.alstom.com/products-services ... pendolino/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Matt Johnson]

If it's anything like the Virgin Pendolinos, the tilt capability should be impressive. So smooth!

[bdawe]

Aperently Alstom's facility is the old Erie shops.

[R36 Combine Coach]

As afiggatt points out, extruded aluminum shells are a particularly difficult manufacturing item. Large aluminum extrusions are a relatively new thing - when they were made in 1971, the MBTA's Red Line cars were the largest such extrusions ever made - and they require a lot of expertise to get right. Totally different from building a railcar from smaller parts and sheet metal.

Aluminum car bodies have been done before on a large scale: the aluminum single level Comet/Horizon coaches built by Pullman and Bombardier from 1970 to 2001 and the BART cars. BBD's Thunder Bay plant is a facility that specializes in aluminum construction.

[Backshophoss]

Remember Amtrak and BBD DON'T like each other.

[Greg Moore]

Remember Amtrak and BBD DON'T like each other.

So in a decade or so Amtrak and Alstrom can not like each other?

[David Benton]

Virtually all European manufacture will be aluminum extrusion. Plenty of experience there.

[trainmaster611]

I'm confused. What high speed trains?

[bdawe]

Acela II, it would seem

[mtuandrew]

Alstom sure as hell did not make railcars in Hornel for 150 years either.

No, but the "factor" has.

Moderator's Note: Since this is an Amtrak topic, I'm moving this to that forum.