Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

[Matt Johnson]

What's really odd is a Pendolino without tilt. Poor man's AGV I guess?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq1UF_Vk674" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[frequentflyer]

What's really odd is a Pendolino without tilt. Poor man's AGV I guess?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq1UF_Vk674" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I read the reasons are lower costs and not needed on the routes the new trains will operate on.

[mtuandrew]

Ok, if I were at Amtrak and considering my future Acela, I’d at least ask Alstom to spec an Avelia Horizon for the NEC. The major difference would be that the cafe car would necessarily be single-level (hey, high ceilings!) and be permanently coupled to at least one car with at least a dozen ADA seats or wheelchair tie-downs and direct access to a vestibule door.

[Ridgefielder]

Ok, if I were at Amtrak and considering my future Acela, I’d at least ask Alstom to spec an Avelia Horizon for the NEC. The major difference would be that the cafe car would necessarily be single-level (hey, high ceilings!) and be permanently coupled to at least one car with at least a dozen ADA seats or wheelchair tie-downs and direct access to a vestibule door.

Look it's not just ADA-compliance. It's overall passenger experience. Let's say you get on a typical crowded 8 or 9 car NE Regional at NY Penn at 4 p.m. on a Friday. The only seat you can find is 3 cars back of the cafe. You're on the way to Providence and you want a beer and a snack on the ride. So, on the way to cafe you have to climb up and down 5 or so sets of steps on your way there and back to get through the vestibules. On the way back you're going to be doing this with your hands full. On a moving train. On the very-much-less-than-tangent Shore Line.

People aren't going to enjoy that. I know I wouldn't. And I'm not sure that the passenger loads on the Regionals are such that the excess capacity from a bi-level is really necessary.

[Matt Johnson]

If I recall from my ride on the TGV duplex 10 years ago, the passage between cars is on the second level in Superliner fashion. But nonetheless, I agree, it's less than ideal for ADA accessibility. And aside from that, you're not gonna get active tilt with a bilevel design.

[jamesinclair]

Ok, if I were at Amtrak and considering my future Acela, I’d at least ask Alstom to spec an Avelia Horizon for the NEC. The major difference would be that the cafe car would necessarily be single-level (hey, high ceilings!) and be permanently coupled to at least one car with at least a dozen ADA seats or wheelchair tie-downs and direct access to a vestibule door.

Look it's not just ADA-compliance. It's overall passenger experience. Let's say you get on a typical crowded 8 or 9 car NE Regional at NY Penn at 4 p.m. on a Friday. The only seat you can find is 3 cars back of the cafe. You're on the way to Providence and you want a beer and a snack on the ride. So, on the way to cafe you have to climb up and down 5 or so sets of steps on your way there and back to get through the vestibules. On the way back you're going to be doing this with your hands full. On a moving train. On the very-much-less-than-tangent Shore Line.

People aren't going to enjoy that. I know I wouldn't. And I'm not sure that the passenger loads on the Regionals are such that the excess capacity from a bi-level is really necessary.

People seem to make their way up and down the steps across 8-9 NJT or LIRR trains when walking to a bathroom that is either the first or last car.

Sure, it's a mild inconvenience, but you know what's a bigger inconvenience? Not being able to board the train because it's sold out. Having 300 extra seats for sale solves that issue.

I think Amtrak should prioritize moving the highest quantity of people vs ensuring that Joe is not inconvenienced when buying a beer.

[bostontrainguy]

Look it's not just ADA-compliance. It's overall passenger experience. Let's say you get on a typical crowded 8 or 9 car NE Regional at NY Penn at 4 p.m. on a Friday. The only seat you can find is 3 cars back of the cafe. You're on the way to Providence and you want a beer and a snack on the ride. So, on the way to cafe you have to climb up and down 5 or so sets of steps on your way there and back to get through the vestibules. On the way back you're going to be doing this with your hands full. On a moving train. On the very-much-less-than-tangent Shore Line.

So what is ADA compliant then? The entire train has to be accessible as some have said here?

Taking your example, what if that person is in the wheelchair? That person would be blocking the aisle for everyone in both directions on their way to and from the cafe and while waiting in line in the cafe.

I would think that would be very inconvenient and problematic for all of the other passengers and actually a serious safety concern.

It would seem to make so much more sense to have an ADA area in the lower level of a bi-level with access to the cafe and an ADA restroom also located on the lower level. Why can't we just use some common sense in this matter?

[BandA]

Dual levels allow train capacity to be higher, at the expense of increased dwell time. I imagine that would decrease capacity at Penn Station. But NJ seems to like dual levels, so...

[bostontrainguy]

Dual levels allow train capacity to be higher, at the expense of increased dwell time. I imagine that would decrease capacity at Penn Station. But NJ seems to like dual levels, so...

New Jersey and Long Island.

Since platform lengths and track capacity are pretty well set for a long long time, the only way to get more capacity is to go bilevel.

[Nasadowsk]

Very few LIRR bilevels go to Penn, the vast majority of LIRR trains in Penn are single level EMUs with quarter point doors.

[ryanov]

I frequently use NJT and Amtrak with large luggage. If I’ve ever found a bag that doesn’t fit in the luggage racks, it’s been very rare. Lifting it up there is another matter, but they are capacious.

[Backshophoss]

What works for commuters,doesn't always work for Amtrak,the Acela II(Liberty) is a single level fixed consist EMU with more seating than the Acela I's
but can be expanded if needed.
Acela should be comfort and style,NOT sardine can commuter seating! That's why you pay the Extra Fare to ride!

[mtuandrew]

Yet the 747-8 and A380 combine dual-level seating and luxury. I’m not saying Amtrak should immediately go out and change its entire order to Avelia Horizons. I’m saying they should ask Alstom to provide a mock-up of an NEC-spec Avelia Horizon car.

Also, why would bi-level cars preclude tilt? I understand they have a higher center of gravity, but they still fit in the same 14’ 6” dynamic envelope.

[jamesinclair]

Correct, more space on board would actually allow Amtrak to provide improved service by further segmenting the train. 1-1 first class, 1-2 business class, 2-2 coach class and 2-3 spring break class

[gokeefe]

I do not agree that a four class configuration would be beneficial to a premium product that is currently operated only as a two class service that consistently sells out.