• Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by mtuandrew
 
David Benton wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:25 pm Or raise the gas tax .
That’s a partial solution. Gas (aka petrol) and other internal combustion fuels are one source of revenue, one which will diminish as electric vehicles again take a big market share; tires, congestion pricing/tolls, vehicular property tax and registration fees are other sources. Beyond the vehicular-based streams, a balanced payment plan could include sources as wildly different as a high point-of-use fee or a progressively-structured national wealth tax.

And it’ll take a lot of money, as mentioned.
  by SRich
 
Don’t shoot me, i don’t wanne die :wink: . It was just a suggestion :-D
  by EuroStar
 
Chao wants to fix the existing tunnels first.
Chao told lawmakers that repairs should begin on the existing tunnel "while we are preparing for the second tunnel."
"Beginning rehab work in the near-term is the right move, not waiting years for the construction of a new tunnel beforehand," she added.
New methods "could allow Amtrak to commence repairs in this tunnel as much as ten years ahead of schedule," she said.
It sounds like that the new tunnels are toast at least until the next Democratic administration.
  by Pensyfan19
 
EuroStar wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:46 pm Chao wants to fix the existing tunnels first.
Chao told lawmakers that repairs should begin on the existing tunnel "while we are preparing for the second tunnel."
"Beginning rehab work in the near-term is the right move, not waiting years for the construction of a new tunnel beforehand," she added.
New methods "could allow Amtrak to commence repairs in this tunnel as much as ten years ahead of schedule," she said.
It sounds like that the new tunnels are toast at least until the next Democratic administration.
At this point a private firm, ANY private firm, not just a private railroad, should take over for construction of the gateway tunnels at this point. It would be similar to how Domino's pizza, a private firm, is helping fix roads (instead of fixing or running rialroads).
  by BandA
 
Article doesn't say if this repair work is magically happening with the tunnels still in use, or will NJT trains be annulled...

EDIT: Other articles 'splain that yes, magical in-use repair only requires "night & weekend outage". What hours are these tunnels below 50% capacity that one can be taken out without affecting service? Other article 'splains that "racking" for 12,000V cables has not yet been developed.
  by David Benton
 
So the schedule to fix the tunnels is more than 10 years?Assuming they don't have a time machine ?
  by mtuandrew
 
Pensyfan19 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:20 pmAt this point a private firm, ANY private firm, not just a private railroad, should take over for construction of the gateway tunnels at this point. It would be similar to how Domino's pizza, a private firm, is helping fix roads (instead of fixing or running rialroads).
“Hi, I’d like two medium tunnels with a side of garlic sticks, hold the PCBs”

Moderator Note: Show us a proposal for a privately-funded, privately-operated set of North River Tunnels, or stop with the nonsense. Your choice.
  by EuroStar
 
BandA wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:43 pm Article doesn't say if this repair work is magically happening with the tunnels still in use, or will NJT trains be annulled...

EDIT: Other articles 'splain that yes, magical in-use repair only requires "night & weekend outage". What hours are these tunnels below 50% capacity that one can be taken out without affecting service? Other article 'splains that "racking" for 12,000V cables has not yet been developed.
The L subway line is supposedly being done over weekend closures, so one would hope that this would be the plan here. The racking for the 12kV cables cannot be such an issue. The Channel tunnel is longer and the cables there are racked. While I have not checked the details lately, the catenary is 25kV, so they must have somehow solved the racking issue. Is it just the cables though? I thought that a full rebuilt of the stuff under the tracks was necessary plus a lot of grouting of the overhead leaks. I also seem to think that the bench was needed for evacuation, so they can't just leave is deteriorate in place, but I could be wrong on that.
  by Dcell
 
NJT is adding new tracks to expand Hoboken Terminal. Once that work is finished, end Midtown Direct snd divert the trains to the Expanded HT and start repairing the Amtrak tunnels. increased ferry service to/fromHoboken would be implemented during the tunnel reconstruction
  by Backshophoss
 
Amtrak kills a tube on weekends for patch repairs,the thruput is cut in half due to 1 tube down.
Chao needs to understand that each tube needs a rebuild internally,that takes time to do it right,not weekend patching.
  by mtuandrew
 
Backshophoss wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:24 pm Amtrak kills a tube on weekends for patch repairs,the thruput is cut in half due to 1 tube down.
Chao needs to understand that each tube needs a rebuild internally,that takes time to do it right,not weekend patching.
Perhaps we could compare it to the ships her family owns - could you drydock a bulk carrier on the weekends and expect to get anything done?
  by Wash
 
I think it's important to remember what happened the last time a private company tried to build a set of tunnels under the Hudson River, which was that they immediately went bankrupt and the tunnels sat half finished under the Hudson for twenty years.
  by mtuandrew
 
Wash wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:41 pm I think it's important to remember what happened the last time a private company tried to build a set of tunnels under the Hudson River, which was that they immediately went bankrupt and the tunnels sat half finished under the Hudson for twenty years.
Technically they’re the second-to-last set of private tunnels, as the Pennsylvania Railroad built theirs later, but they’re what became
the Uptown Tubes of PATH (née Hudson & Manhattan )
  by Pensyfan19
 
Dcell wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:09 pm NJT is adding new tracks to expand Hoboken Terminal. Once that work is finished, end Midtown Direct snd divert the trains to the Expanded HT and start repairing the Amtrak tunnels. increased ferry service to/fromHoboken would be implemented during the tunnel reconstruction
In that case why can't NJT have more trains to the Jersey coast by restoring either Pavonia, Exchange Place and/or Communipaw? Most of the existing right of way is still there and it would allow for increased capacity for each branch without cramming all of them into Penn.
  by mtuandrew
 
Pensyfan19 wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:45 pm
Dcell wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:09 pm NJT is adding new tracks to expand Hoboken Terminal. Once that work is finished, end Midtown Direct snd divert the trains to the Expanded HT and start repairing the Amtrak tunnels. increased ferry service to/fromHoboken would be implemented during the tunnel reconstruction
In that case why can't NJT have more trains to the Jersey coast by restoring either Pavonia, Exchange Place and/or Communipaw? Most of the existing right of way is still there and it would allow for increased capacity for each branch without cramming all of them into Penn.
What do Erie Pavonia (demolished and landlocked), PRR Exchange Place (demolished and landlocked), or CNJ Communipaw (repurposed and landlocked) have to do with either an expanded Hoboken Terminal or NY Penn Station? The whole point is that far more people want to go from greater New Jersey to Manhattan than want to go to Jersey City, and they don’t want to have to transfer to PATH or a ferry to do it.

Folks, we aren’t rebuilding any terminals that were torn down 50 years ago. EDIT: and we aren’t using the Bergen Arches either.
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