ALC-42E Acquisition and Planned Operation

[LewS]

The recent issue of Passenger Train Journal had a somewhat detailed article about Charger locomotives in service and ordered for North America. I was shocked that they were ordering 75 copies of the dual mode (presently there are 18 P32s). Where would they use them? Routinely they will not change engines at Albany Rensselaer for the five car consists going across NY State and to Montreal (which has not been often as this line has been out of service of late more than operational). I can't imagine you can use 42Es to pull heavy consists on the Lake Shore Limited.

There are routes passing through New Haven that could benefit from dual mode, negating the need for a engine change there (Vermonter To DC; 4-5 through trains from Boston to VA destinations). From NYP there's the Pennsylvanian, Keystone service (already a single engine ride), the Palmetto plus 2-3 additional trains to Virginia. All of these could be dual mode trains. Or could they? Will the ALC-42E be able to match the ACS-64s acceleration and 125 mph max speed? If so, will there be restrictions to the length of the consists? NJ Transit has close to 15 years experience now with the Bombarier ALC-45DM. They take quite awhile to get to 80 mph in electric mode. But speed is not a critical need as they only operate 90 mph+ territory for short stretches before departing for their NE direct service on the Morristown, Raritan Valley and N. Jersey Coast lines. One final question: will all be built with equipped with both 3rd rail paddles and pantographs?

I still can't get the math (A 75 unit order) to add up for me.

[TheOneKEA]

I’m confused about your statements regarding the dual-mode Chargers. Many posts on this forum have stated that the ALC-42E is almost completely self-contained and that all of the electric collection equipment (pantograph and/or 3rd rail shoes) are located on the APV adjacent to the ALC-42E. 75 of them sounds like a sufficiently large number for all of the beyond-the-catenary services that Amtrak plans to use them on.

[MEC407]

Which routes have yet to see the ALC-42s in revenue service?

The Downeaster.

[Jeff Smith]

I’m confused about your statements regarding the dual-mode Chargers. Many posts on this forum have stated that the ALC-42E is almost completely self-contained and that all of the electric collection equipment (pantograph and/or 3rd rail shoes) are located on the APV adjacent to the ALC-42E. 75 of them sounds like a sufficiently large number for all of the beyond-the-catenary services that Amtrak plans to use them on.

The new member's post was in a different thread; I merged it here so that they could find more information.

[Railjunkie]

Mr LewS

Engine changes Empire Service trains:

AMT 49/48 The Lake Shore Limited
AMT 63/64 The Maple Leaf
AMT 69/68 The Adirondack
AMT 283/284 Niagara Falls Service
AMT 291/290 Burlington Service

In my personal opinion any train going west or north of ALB/REN should have a single mode locomotive on it. Save the dual modes for ALB-NYP service.

[electricron]

Mr LewS

Engine changes Empire Service trains:

AMT 49/48 The Lake Shore Limited
AMT 63/64 The Maple Leaf
AMT 69/68 The Adirondack
AMT 283/284 Niagara Falls Service
AMT 291/290 Burlington Service

In my personal opinion any train going west or north of ALB/REN should have a single mode locomotive on it. Save the dual modes for ALB-NYP service.

I would make a compromise and change Albany to the New York state line. Which means single locomotive all the way to Buffalo.

[NHV 669]

Which is literally what he already wrote...

[STrRedWolf]

Mr LewS

Engine changes Empire Service trains:

AMT 49/48 The Lake Shore Limited
AMT 63/64 The Maple Leaf
AMT 69/68 The Adirondack
AMT 283/284 Niagara Falls Service
AMT 291/290 Burlington Service

In my personal opinion any train going west or north of ALB/REN should have a single mode locomotive on it. Save the dual modes for ALB-NYP service.

So if it came from NYP, it's dual-mode, but they're trying to save on swaps?

How about this: Any NY State service gets the Airo, but the APU is both third rail and caternary.

[Jeff Smith]

Did I read somewhere that they will use MNRR third-rail from CH to SD? If so, they'd have to be M8 type shoes.

[Railjunkie]

I hate to make this slightly political. But here goes. The new dual modes will be dragging a tender to house a battery box correct?? If I'm wrong sorry. But for the point of this discussion lets say they are. Which should only be used to get into and out of Penn a distance of less than a mile. Maybe MNRR lets Amtrak use their third rail between CP12 and Croton North station doubtful but perhaps. A distance of 23ish miles. You are then burning extra fuel to get this dual mode Yugo up to speed in and out of station stops and restrictions for another 400 miles. Savings???

Meanwhile Click and Clack in some third world country are burning coal by the metric tone because they don't care about the environment they just know they need to make money to pull themselves out of poverty. How does this all tie together Amtrak styling and profiling looking good to the tree huggers. Click and Click just try to survive. What we do here will have little effect on the environment unless we get ALL countries to buy in.

[electricron]

The APU for Empire Service trains will be different from the APU for NEC trains. Both will have diesels to power the generators to power the motors without third rail or catenary. NEC trains will have a pantograph to collect power from the overhead catenary. Empire Service trains will have no pantograph or shoes, instead having a battery to power the electric motors in the tunnel approaching Penn Station. The APU car in one example will have a pantograph and transformer to change catenary voltage to motor voltage. The APU car in the other example will not have a pantograph or transformer, but will have a large battery bank.
I sort of wish Amtrak used different acronyms to distinguish between the two different APU cars.

[Nasadowsk]

Prediction: battery car will be a flop, and a tag on order with MN/LI for third rail DMs will happen.

[electricron]

Prediction: battery car will be a flop, and a tag on order with MN/LI for third rail DMs will happen.

Why do you think battery APU cars will be a flop? Trains can be powered by a battery for dozen(s) of miles already, and the Empire Service tunnel entry into Penn Station is far less than a dozen miles.
Stadler Flirts in Europe can go 45-65 miles on a fully charged battery, and can recharge from 20%-80% in around 25 minutes. Of course Empire Service trains will be much heavier than a 4 car Flirt, but individual Venture cars are 25% larger and therefore should have room for a 25% larger battery. Never-the-less, Empire Service trains will not have to go 45 miles before being able to start their diesels.

[Tadman]

Why do you think battery APU cars will be a flop?

It's not like they have the best track record with simple stuff, let alone complex orders. I have no insight on the APU cars, but their odds are not good from the get go.

[Railjunkie]

The APU for Empire Service trains will be different from the APU for NEC trains. Both will have diesels to power the generators to power the motors without third rail or catenary. NEC trains will have a pantograph to collect power from the overhead catenary. Empire Service trains will have no pantograph or shoes, instead having a battery to power the electric motors in the tunnel approaching Penn Station. The APU car in one example will have a pantograph and transformer to change catenary voltage to motor voltage. The APU car in the other example will not have a pantograph or transformer, but will have a large battery bank.
I sort of wish Amtrak used different acronyms to distinguish between the two different APU cars.

Again why does it need to be so complicated for one f'ing mile of railroad. A simple pantogragph or third rail shoes will suffice. The more "stuff" you add the more complicated it becomes. The complicated it becomes the less it wants to work. Trust me on this, been playing trains for almost 27 years and its getting worse not better.