P42 - Is There Life After Amtrak?

[shadyjay]

I recall back to the mid 90s when the replacement for the F40PH fleet was the Genesis, P40 then P42... it was unthinkable to see the F40 fleet of 215 units, the mainstay of Amtrak's network, being put out to pasture. As we found out, there was some life after Amtrak for them.... conversion to Cabbages, conversion by CDAC to freight locomotives, some tourist operations, Class I business trains, etc.

We are still a few years away from the retirement of the P42 class, which numbered (at its peak) 207 units (plus the 15 or so P40s still cranking). It would look mighty strange to see a Genesis pulling a tourist train somewhere. Could they even be converted for freight use? Again, would seem strange, though the F40s looked more "freight-oriented" than the Genesis design. ConnDOT has a good sized fleet but are there other commuter agencies looking to grab some? Granted, they all have pretty high mileage, so that could be a turnoff.

Any thoughts? Or, whither the P42?

[STrRedWolf]

In a word, yes (assuming no financial hang-ups like Amtrak's HHP-8)

Yes, they'll get overhauled, probably ether by Amtrak or Wabtec (GE Transport's parent, since these are GE Genesis engines). If Amtrak, they'll still be P40/P42's and probably get a few sold off to Via Rail and Metro-North Railroad. If Wabtec, they'll probably be upgraded to GE Evolution Series engines. Some of the shortlines are still running E40's, and having a more fuel-efficent engine would be worth it.

And yes, they'll probably get a few converted to Cab-Baggage cars and the engines parted out, most likely some of the shop queens.

Wither the P42's? Nah.

[R36 Combine Coach]

Yes, they'll get overhauled, probably ether by Amtrak or Wabtec (GE Transport's parent).

And yes, they'll probably get a few converted to Cab-Baggage cars.

The latter seems unlikely given the Genesis is a monocoque design, unlike the F40 a cowl on frame.
Modifying the body shell would compromise load strength, not unlike some postwar Budd coaches converted to baggage service. Hence why Amfleets weren't built in a combine or baggage variant (the fuselage shell would been compromised by a large loading door).

[eolesen]

Correct. You can't make a cabbage out of any of the recent GE passenger locomotives.

I'd be surprised to see any used in freight service given the relatively poor sightlines and lack of a platform for doing switching moves.

[John_Perkowski]

IF they are given a remanufacturing overhaul, THEN maybe the commuter roads will pick them up cheap

ELSE, they’ll be parted out.

[scratchyX1]

IF they are given a remanufacturing overhaul, THEN maybe the commuter roads will pick them up cheap

ELSE, they’ll be parted out.

So,
No CF-42 type rebuilds...

[eolesen]

IF they are given a remanufacturing overhaul, THEN maybe the commuter roads will pick them up cheap

That's a pretty big If, Colonel... Would you really want to invest in P42's that are probably older than your existing fleet?

Maybe Metra and MBTA could use them to retire the F40's, or NJT to retire the GP40's.

After that, just about every other transit agency is using MP36's or later variants which are newer than the oldest P42.

Personally, I see commuter motive power expansion being on hold for a good part of the next decade... Schedules haven't fully recovered, and if my prediction of a >20% drop in commuter traffic post-vaccine comes to fruition, the existing fleets won't be running nearly as hard as they did in 2019.

[MattW]

Are the P42s even good for commuter service? They're a very slow-loading locomotive from what I understand which doesn't suit short stop distances very well. Do the P32s that MNRR uses load faster?

[chrisf]

IF they are given a remanufacturing overhaul, THEN maybe the commuter roads will pick them up cheap

That's a pretty big If, Colonel... Would you really want to invest in P42's that are probably older than your existing fleet?

Maybe Metra and MBTA could use them to retire the F40's, or NJT to retire the GP40's.

After that, just about every other transit agency is using MP36's or later variants which are newer than the oldest P42.

Personally, I see commuter motive power expansion being on hold for a good part of the next decade... Schedules haven't fully recovered, and if my prediction of a >20% drop in commuter traffic post-vaccine comes to fruition, the existing fleets won't be running nearly as hard as they did in 2019.

MBTA's in the midst of rebuilding all their F40s, so they're not going to have any need for fleet replacement or expansion in the form of P40/P42s. I would expect most of the P42s will be retired and scrapped; most commuter lines won't want to take these on, and will not likely have any increased demand for several years due to the pandemic.

[shadyjay]

I can't see Metro North picking up any. Theirs is a more specialized need, what with the third rail capacity needed. There are a few shuttles which are handled largely by the Brookvilles. Sometimes the Waterbury shuttles borrow a SLE trainset midday, which is either a GP40-et al or a ConnDOT P40. ConnDOT's fleet of P40s is up to 10 and coupled with the GP40s, that gives 16 locos total, more than enough for current ops and eventually, some SLE will be electric anyway.

NJ Transit probably won't have any interest in them, either. Otherwise, they probably would've held onto the 4 they had for ACES, but they sold them to ConnDOT.

Metra just got the former Amtrak F59s from the west coast. So they're probably set for awhile.

[rcthompson04]

Would they even make good control cars?

[frequentflyer]

30 years of service, the Genesis ran longer and reliable for Amtrak than the F40s. Aside from a few museums, they will end up scrap. Amtrak got their money's worth out of them.

[TurningOfTheWheel]

IF they are given a remanufacturing overhaul, THEN maybe the commuter roads will pick them up cheap

That's a pretty big If, Colonel... Would you really want to invest in P42's that are probably older than your existing fleet?

Maybe Metra and MBTA could use them to retire the F40's, or NJT to retire the GP40's.

Metra is an unlikely destination. They've recently rebuilt all their F40s, they have the SD70MAC conversions coming in the next couple of years with options for more, and they're looking to rebuild the F59 fleet they got from Amtrak/GO.

[eolesen]

Yep, which is why I said a very big if.

There's no reasonable market for them outside being mobile emergency electrical generators....

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[STrRedWolf]

Metra is an unlikely destination. They've recently rebuilt all their F40s, they have the SD70MAC conversions coming in the next couple of years with options for more, and they're looking to rebuild the F59 fleet they got from Amtrak/GO.

What's the fuel consumption on the F40's vs the P42's/P40's? Wikipedia claims it s lower on the P-series.