Amtrak on-train operations

[STrRedWolf]

Point me to the right thread if you know it off-hand... but... I got operational questions (and not diner/food service operations).

This one is of conductor access. Assuming a regular Amtrak consist on the NEC or a LD train, would a regular conductor have access to the engine and be able to sit in front with the engineer... or would that conductor also require the same engineer qualifications?

[Railjunkie]

This question has a lot of variables, student engineer? Annual check ride?? How many folks are in the cab?? Do I want or need you up there? First and foremost conductors and engineers are both qualified on the territory being covered. We are both responsible if something goes wrong. AKA you did it you watched and you knew about it. However there are differences in our licenses which I am not sure of having never sat through a conductor re sert class.

Access it would depend on what is going on. Ive had conductors ride with me to flag multiple crossings, in times of bad weather, cab signal failure (dependent on what RR rule book) or if the alertor goes bad. Basically it has to be in the performance of duty. One just cant come up and ride for the heck of it aka smoke and joke.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. Junkie, if you ask me, from my perspective in Labor Relations of having reviewed enough "trial transcripts" "back in my day", I can't think of any instances of Rules discipline assessed where other than both Conductor and Engineer were charged.

[8th Notch]

Point me to the right thread if you know it off-hand... but... I got operational questions (and not diner/food service operations).

This one is of conductor access. Assuming a regular Amtrak consist on the NEC or a LD train, would a regular conductor have access to the engine and be able to sit in front with the engineer... or would that conductor also require the same engineer qualifications?

You may want to ask that question another way. Conductors generally don’t ride the head end unless something fails or they are required for another reason in performance of there duties. No one really requires engineer qualifications to ride the head end, you just have to fall into a specify category as outlined in NORAC/Special instructions to legally be riding the head end. On the corridor, the conductors(if we are lucky enough to have a good one) do sometimes bring up coffee or check in with the engineer on Acelas because they can simply walk through the machine room vs on a regional they can only get on and off the engine at a stop.

[JimBoylan]

From https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... R1902.aspx

On February 4, 2018, about 2:27 a.m. local time, southbound Amtrak (National Railroad Passenger Corporation) train P91, operating on a track warrant, was diverted from the main track through a reversed hand-throw switch into a track and collided head-on with a stationary CSX Transportation Corporation (CSX) local freight train F777. The accident occurred on CSX’s Florence Division, Columbia Subdivision in Cayce, South Carolina.
The engineer and conductor of the Amtrak train died because of the collision.

Farther down it explains that the Conductor was riding with the Engineer to help him through a section of the railroad where the signals weren't working.

[STrRedWolf]

You may want to ask that question another way. Conductors generally don’t ride the head end unless something fails or they are required for another reason in performance of there duties. No one really requires engineer qualifications to ride the head end, you just have to fall into a specify category as outlined in NORAC/Special instructions to legally be riding the head end. On the corridor, the conductors(if we are lucky enough to have a good one) do sometimes bring up coffee or check in with the engineer on Acelas because they can simply walk through the machine room vs on a regional they can only get on and off the engine at a stop.

I had to highlight the answer, given a Regional-style consist in normal operation. Essentially, yes, they can (given permission)... but they can only go up there while the train is stationary. With the Acela, since it's integrated into the consist (kinda like a FLIRT), they can enter at any time.

So in essence, nobody crosses the door to the engine while it's moving. Qualified and/or with permission otherwise.

Thanks! I was wondering about getting that right in fiction, because I would occasionally see conductors on the MARC trains along side the engineer in the cab car up on the NEC... and I think maybe some actual MARC personnel too.

[shadyjay]

As far as the P42s go, you can get from Amfleet coaches into the engineers compartment.... "been there, done that" (with an escort). This would be on a medium distance or regional train that only had one locomotive. If there's two locomotives, or an electric loco (not counting Acelas), this is not possible... not sure about the new diesels.

[8th Notch]

You may want to ask that question another way. Conductors generally don’t ride the head end unless something fails or they are required for another reason in performance of there duties. No one really requires engineer qualifications to ride the head end, you just have to fall into a specify category as outlined in NORAC/Special instructions to legally be riding the head end. On the corridor, the conductors(if we are lucky enough to have a good one) do sometimes bring up coffee or check in with the engineer on Acelas because they can simply walk through the machine room vs on a regional they can only get on and off the engine at a stop.

Thanks! I was wondering about getting that right in fiction, because I would occasionally see conductors on the MARC trains along side the engineer in the cab car up on the NEC... and I think maybe some actual MARC personnel too.

It’s very common to see crew members ride up front with the engineer in commuter service while the engineer is operating from the cab car since they can easily slide in and out. Whether or not the person is up there for a valid reason is debatable however most engineers do appreciate the company. I personally like to see train crew members riding the head end when they have a chance, conductors are required to be qualified on the PCs of the territory and sitting in the back all the time can make it easy to forget things.

[Railjunkie]

From https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... R1902.aspx

On February 4, 2018, about 2:27 a.m. local time, southbound Amtrak (National Railroad Passenger Corporation) train P91, operating on a track warrant, was diverted from the main track through a reversed hand-throw switch into a track and collided head-on with a stationary CSX Transportation Corporation (CSX) local freight train F777. The accident occurred on CSX’s Florence Division, Columbia Subdivision in Cayce, South Carolina.
The engineer and conductor of the Amtrak train died because of the collision.

Farther down it explains that the Conductor was riding with the Engineer to help him through a section of the railroad where the signals weren't working.

In this case with a signal suspension the conductor was up front helping with the EC1s that CSX was issuing for clearances through the area in question. There is a lot going on and the extra hands and eyes are always welcome. Plus if both are on the head end then there is no reason to repeat the copy of the EC1s and other information pertaining to the movement of the train between engineer and conductor.

[Railjunkie]

Mr. Junkie, if you ask me, from my perspective in Labor Relations of having reviewed enough "trial transcripts" "back in my day", I can't think of any instances of Rules discipline assessed where other than both Conductor and Engineer were charged.

I was a conductor off the list and caught the brakeman job on the LSL ALB to CLE and back, those turns paid really well but it was a three day affair. On the return trip in SDY while on the siding the conductor backed the train through a red, we had a young man who couldnt follow simple instructions as to where he was to de train. That wasnt a good day to do it as we had the division super with us. Anyway the only person charged that day was the conductor. I wasnt even drug tested.

Fast forward about 10 yrs crew blows a red on the Mohawk the engineer, conductor and brakeman are all taken out with extra bonus of being banned for 6 months. It all comes down to which RR you have your "bring your train to safe stop and stand by" moment on.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Amtrak, want some priceless PR?

Give this kid a ride - and on the engine:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/pare ... covid.html

[STrRedWolf]

Amtrak, want some priceless PR?

Give this kid a ride - and on the engine:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/pare ... covid.html

There's got to be probably at least five FRA regulations that prevent a kid from riding next to an engineer on a moving consist...

...but I can see a photo-op of a kid behind the controls of a cut-out cab unit (MARC 5100) bookended by two parked regular engines.

[CNJGeep]

There's got to be probably at least five FRA regulations that prevent a kid from riding next to an engineer on a moving consist...

...but I can see a photo-op of a kid behind the controls of a cut-out cab unit (MARC 5100) bookended by two parked regular engines.

I can't think of anything in the CFR, but each railroad has rule specific to who can be in the cab and when.

There's a precedent for what GBN is suggesting:


The MARC cab car thing, you mean the 7100?

[STrRedWolf]

I can't think of anything in the CFR, but each railroad has rule specific to who can be in the cab and when.

There's a precedent for what GBN is suggesting:


The MARC cab car thing, you mean the 7100?

Yeah, I was thinking the 7100. But then, the kid got on the controls of a P42 with an engineer along side and another conductor for a short trip, and probably did the same on a steamer. Amtrak, Make A Wish, and a few railroads (probably negotiated via Amtrak). Good for an occasional one-off.

Still, back to the article... heh, good sample letter. Wonder what train engine the kid has. Slim chance of doing it, though. Make A Wish Foundation would bump the chances up a lot, though. A few questions that'll have to be left unanswered.