by mtuandrew
Ironically (or maybe because of machine logic) this thread was suggested for me: Ogilvie - Union Station Passenger Walkway?
Railroad Forums
Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman
electricron wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:59 amIf 1600 feet is too far to walk in downtown Chicago, it is too far to walk out in residential neighborhoods as well. No one expects door to door service with public transit in residential neighborhoods, why do they expect it downtown?My threshold is how many people walk through the building door where the bus stops. In a residential area a bus would stop at the corner instead of at each house. It might stop at the door of a large apartment complex if the number of passengers was sufficient. CUS has bus service a lot closer than 1600ft and it should since the location has a lot of passengers.
Arborwayfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:32 amRight, but nobody gets out of bed in Champagne or Carbondale and says "by golly I'd rather go to Randolph Street Station Today!" and even less get out of bed and say "by golly I'd rather go to Randolph Street Station Today and change trains in homewood to a pokeyass local full of commuters in tiny chairs.The above idea makes the planned and unplanned times even longer, still drops the passengers at a terminal different than CUS (the idea you so vehemently oppose), and adds 5 degrees of new complexity for the rider, and continues to use the SCAL.Nobody here has opposed dropping passengers who want to be somewhere along the Michigan Avenue Cliff at Van Buren or Millenium. People have opposed (and some people have merely questioned) dropping all the passengers from the CN-IC trains there, because some do transfer at CUS and some presumably want to be over by CUS rather than over by the lake, and because there would be various capital and operating costs for Amtrak to make that change.
Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:31 pmRight, but nobody gets out of bed in Champagne or Carbondale and says "by golly I'd rather go to Randolph Street Station Today!" and even less get out of bed and say "by golly I'd rather go to Randolph Street Station Today and change trains in homewood to a pokeyass local full of commuters in tiny chairs.They wake up and say "I am going to Chicago today". The train goes to CUS with the option of changing trains at Homewood or taking another train out of CUS if a second train will get them further along the way. (No extra time needed at Homewood - just let the people off and roll on toward the city.) Only a railfan (like you) would be going to the station and not beyond. The train goes where the train goes. Most people are smart enough to figure out transportation after they arrive in Chicago. Having the train terminate in a hub makes that transportation easier.
Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:31 pmAs we analyze solutions, we have to pretend there are no railfans. Just irate travelers. I sit next to them at the bar in New Buffalo and they cannot imagine why Amtrak takes so long to get to NBU or why Norfolk Southern delays them. They don't even know what Norfolk Southern is, and they just dont care when the conductor makes excuses.Wow. Those guys in New Buffalo must be overserved if they think moving the Carbondale trains will speed up their journey to New Buffalo. They must be overserved if they believe taking the same NS train line to LaSalle station would be faster than staying on NS to 21st St and CUS.
justalurker66 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:23 pmYou have yet to actually prove that. Right now we have two bodies of hard fact:mtuandrew wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:14 pmWhatever Amtrak’s issues are, moving some terminations to a different station won’t fix them.And that is the bottom line.
justalurker66 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:18 pm They wake up and say "I am going to Chicago today".And then they get in their car and drive to Chicago.
justalurker66 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:18 pm The train goes to CUS with the option of changing trains at Homewood or taking another train out of CUS if a second train will get them further along the way. (No extra time needed at Homewood - just let the people off and roll on toward the city.)Nobody makes that change at Homewood. Nobody.
justalurker66 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:18 pm Only a railfan (like you) would be going to the station and not beyond.That is literally the exact opposite of what I've said in this entire thread. Every point I've made has been based on going past the station to a real destination. I have the business travel to back it up.
justalurker66 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:18 pm Wow. Those guys in New Buffalo must be overserved if they think moving the Carbondale trains will speed up their journey to New Buffalo. They must be overserved if they believe taking the same NS train line to LaSalle station would be faster than staying on NS to 21st St and CUS.I never said that. Go ahead and point to where I said that.
Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:45 amYou have yet to actually prove that. Right now we have two bodies of hard fact:When did anyone assert that the stations don’t exist, excepting Central (which is more or less McCormick or Roosevelt), Dearborn, Englewood (not a terminal) and Grand Central? Well... I’m waiting!!
1. the Amtrak way which is proven to be broken
2. the old way which is proven to work
We also have stations in 4 of 5 of the original terminal sites, despite your assertions otherwise.
mtuandrew wrote: And ok, find us timetables fI think we're going in circles here. I just posted the Metra Electric times Homewood-Randolph in comparison to Amtrak times downtown.
Tadman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:15 pmIf you insist on a streamliner timetable, here is IC's Panama doing Central-Homewood with one stop in between at 25 out and 30 in. http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/con ... 96801.html
A better comparison is the Homewood run. The City gets 50m out, 1:30 in. The Illini gets 40 out, 1:15 in. No stops.
Metra does it in 38 out, 41 in. Five stops on a Harvey zone train. A Kensington local does it in 42 with more stops than I can count.
electricron wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:30 am Do not use Amtrak’s schedules of the next to last station and the terminating station of a train for run times, because Amtrak pad these every time. The real running time for this section of track is on the departing Amtrak schedule. For your example, for the City as was posted earlier, 50 minutes out vs 90 minutes in. That extra 40 minutes in is all padding, and nothing else. You will see similar padding on every Amtrak train, no matter where.Agreed. The first time I took the Pennsylvanian to Pittsburgh, somehow I got there at 7pm or so, and I was impressed. The next year, with two reverse moves over switches (the conductors were being transparent), I got in at 8pm. A little bit of padding, enough for minor issues on the line.
Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:45 amYou have yet to actually prove that. Right now we have two bodies of hard fact:Those are your assertions - not bodies of hard fact - and we have been trying to get you to prove your point since the beginning of this thread. It is your plan to decentralize. It is your responsibility to offer proof.
1. the Amtrak way which is proven to be broken
2. the old way which is proven to work
Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:45 amWe also have stations in 4 of 5 of the original terminal sites, despite your assertions otherwise.And tracks connecting those stations to the trains you want to send to them? Don't forget that you made the claims earlier that your plan would not need construction.
Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:53 amNobody makes that change at Homewood. Nobody.Not one person ever? Well that is a bold claim.
Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:53 amAnd you do need extra time, as there is no guaranteed connections, so you have to wait. It's going to be at least 15 minutes and perhaps an hour.The point is the Amtrak train does not have to wait. Your initial violent rebuke of the idea of transferring at Homewood was the layover time for Amtrak before heading into the city. The train already stops there with no layover beyond a normal station stop to discharge passengers. Amtrak doesn't have to wait for the connecting train.
Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:53 amThe overall point of this thread has and always will be about a strategy of using the natural terminals at the end of the line to avoid handoffs and complexity.Your idea of what is and is not a natural terminal is unnatural.
Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:53 amI'm sure you think you're clever trying to change my arguments and then play the victim because I'm so mean.And when you can't support your arguments you turn to insults. We are all the victims of your constant harassment. If you could "win" your argument you would stick to the point you want to make and not keep posting insults. But your plan and your arguments have no merit.